ceemac

Shake It Baby...
What The Hell's Going On?
Two amazing stories from Today's Zaman regarding the alleged antics of the Turkish armed forces, makes you wonder just what the hell is going on in the country.

I also wonder too though if it's a carefully orchestrated smear campaign against the military?

It's hard to guage not knowing enough about the internal politics of the country, but those who never wish to see Turkey in the EU must be ecstatic.

Here's the links to the stories;

Military Plot Aimed at Exploiting Religion, and,

Naval forces junta planned to undermine AK Party with non-Muslim assassinations


C
 
What The Hell's Going On?
Hi,

These revelations are more alleged 'evidence' about the underground organisation named 'Ergenekon'. There have been investigations (and trials) going on over the past couple of years.

Ergenekon or 'Deep State' has been accused of plotting to overthrow the government and carrying out several executions.

There are many politicians, military, civil servants and members of the judiciary currently on trial.
More evidence is being released as the trials progress-pretty scary stuff.

Ann
 

pembelu

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
''Ergenekon or 'Deep State' has been accused of plotting to overthrow the government and carrying out several executions''
see- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ergenekon_(organization)
also if u understand some turkish and want to watch a typical mens style serial then watch Kurtlar Vadisi Pusu on tv tonight....
i watch it for the handsome men in nice suits (well at least im honest) and think hub watches it to unwind and get suit ideas for work.....uhm.. nice sound track to it.....but sometimes comic...
 

JohnF

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
Two amazing stories from Today's Zaman regarding the alleged antics of the Turkish armed forces, makes you wonder just what the hell is going on in the country.

I also wonder too though if it's a carefully orchestrated smear campaign against the military?
I've highlighted the two most crucial elements of your post, think about the general political leanings of that particular newspaper...

JF
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
What The Hell's Going On?
'It's hard to guage not knowing enough about the internal politics of the country'

And I've highlighted the above crucial element of my post - so given that I'm sketchy on the internal workings of Turkish politics, how am I supposed to know the politics of Today's Zaman ? :hmm: :biggrin:


C
 

pembelu

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
and i know its only a TV serial but if u watch it its also hard to tell whos supporting what or trying to overthrow whom....i think it summs up how little i really know about the country i live in.....and afterall to watch it in the form of entertainment as opposed to reading newspapers is fun..well who is more informed either way of the reality of deep this n that? last night the so called bad guy (actually an american apparently) saw on camera one of his 'men' hung on a flag post next to the turkish flag with a sign round his neck noone could read.... the shot went on for a while and well i think the producers have thier own political stance .....then there is the film advertised inbetween the ads called kurtlar vadisi gladio....well you have to look up gladio to work that one out too....happy fact hunting...good luck!
 

JohnF

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
so given that I'm sketchy on the internal workings of Turkish politics, how am I supposed to know the politics of Today's Zaman ?
I wasnt having a go at you, I just assumed most folks were aware of Zamans pro AKP policy.

JF
 

ChrisBobs

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
'It's hard to guage not knowing enough about the internal politics of the country'

And I've highlighted the above crucial element of my post - so given that I'm sketchy on the internal workings of Turkish politics, how am I supposed to know the politics of Today's Zaman ? :hmm: :biggrin:


C

Doesn't it always temper the newspaper reader's view of how a newspaper is reporting- anywhere in the world?
Wouldn't you say the same to a foreign reader in UK- of..The Sun, The Guardian............:biggrin:

:flock:
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
What The Hell's Going On?
Wasn't having a go at you either John - hence the wee smiley :cheers:

And Chris, I agree totally, but only about The Sun heheh - any halfwit would pick up immediately what their game is!!


C
 
What The Hell's Going On?
JohnF, my friend is one of the editors of Zaman and wears hijab as do many of her colleagues at that paper. They do not hide their political affiliation or religious beliefs and I wonder why you need to point it out to us.
 

ChrisBobs

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
JohnF, my friend is one of the editors of Zaman and wears hijab as do many of her colleagues at that paper. They do not hide their political affiliation or religious beliefs and I wonder why you need to point it out to us.


There is a great deal of difference between the personal beliefs of the staff and the degree with which they support or not the agenda of the newspaper!
And it helps readers to know- especially in such a difficult tangled issue as the Ergenokon, what editorial stance the newspaper takes.

I took issue with the Today's Zaman at the last Bayram, commonly called SEKER BAYRAM, when it did a full piece on how traditional it is to say 'El-eid Mubarek Olsun' when it fact it is common to say Bayram Mubarek Olsun....my saintly mother-in law backs me on that!
It was a clear case of distorting the holiday greetings to fit a (new) religious agenda

PS - can someone 'see ' what the staff wear when they are reading the paper???!!!
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
What The Hell's Going On?
JohnF, my friend is one of the editors of Zaman and wears hijab as do many of her colleagues at that paper. They do not hide their political affiliation or religious beliefs and I wonder why you need to point it out to us.


I think in fairness it was being pointed out to me as I'm not terribly au fait with the paper's political leanings..


C
 
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What The Hell's Going On?
the English Zaman is a watered down version of the Turkish edition...and as Craig says there was nothing wrong in John pointing out Zamans political affiliation. İt wasnt a personal attack.
Reading the links that Craig gave anybody would be mystified as to what exactly was going on here. ..theres more subversion than New Labour...and plots within plots are hard to unravel...although some of them verge on the farcical.
the AKP are making much more of Ergenekon than even they could have thought up. ..
 

JohnF

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
JohnF, my friend is one of the editors of Zaman and wears hijab as do many of her colleagues at that paper. They do not hide their political affiliation or religious beliefs and I wonder why you need to point it out to us.
Because it is perfectly obvious that some members on here were unaware of it - are you suggesting I *shouldn't* have informed them of this newspapers political leanings?

JF
 

martin m

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
Hi all
I am one of the half wits who faithfully pay for the sun newspaper everyday, along with millions of white van men, nurses,builders,bus drivers,cleaners, dinner ladies,painters you know just Mr & Mrs average who work their bo**ocks off for this country. but we forever get tainted because of the newspaper we read And those nice smart men trotting of to work with the times under their arms well look at the state they have got this country in to.
martin
 

Martyn

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
Well I read The Times purely because it's a better paper. I'm not interested in who is s******g who just a decent read. Before you say it I grew up on a council estate from a single parent family and left school at 15. I read The Sun when it first come into print then I grew up and changed. :smartass:
 
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Squeaky

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
Good evening:

I don't know if you are interested in learning something about Turkish politics or not but must point out the over 50 per cent of the Turkish media (print and TV) is owned by Aydin Dogan and his group of companies. He and his group of companies were recently fined over 4 billion TL for tax evasion and fraud. As near as I can figure after he and Baykal of CHP and a lot of others of his ilk screamed and hollered about freedom of the press he is now talking to the authorities to reduce the fine - not taking it to court to prove it is illegal or incorrect as one would expect were that so.

He and his papers which include Hurriyet, Milliyet and Cumhuriye are supporters of the opposition CHP. To the best of my knowledge only Hurriyet publishs in English. You will find only the barest mention, if any, of the Ergenekon trials in this paper which almost makes it appear that no trial is taking place. There was only the barest mention of the recent letters and documents sent to the authorities by a whistle blower a couple of weeks ago which indicated that the military had an action plan to destroy the AK Party and no mention of the 3rd letter received on Tuesday along with a CD containing 590 folder from the GHQ computers with additional plans to destroy the AK Party and create chaos in the country creating grounds for a military coup.

If you want to know what the present government is clearing up read about the Susuluk affair of over a decade ago and the Semdinli killing of four years ago. A lot of evil things went on in this country during the past which is now slowly coming to light mainly because of the Ergenekon investigation and trial.

Please note that an Army Lt has now been jailed for the death of 4 servicemen which was classed as an accident until published by the Taref newspaper.

As far as I can see only a couple of newspapers are publishing what I would call news about these recent event while the rest seem to be ignoring the events hoping they will go away. If this makes these news report suspect, well, I'm sorry but I will continue to read everything from any source and hopefully make up my own mind.

We are living in a time when great changes are taking place in this country and I think they are all for the better - imagine being arrested for selling a left wing newspaper and dying the next day because of beatings by the police only to have your family find that a doctor who had not even seen the prisoner had signed a statement there were no signs of torture on the body - trial now underway in Istanbul.

I suggest you read as much as you can and don't believe too much of what you are told because I find that the locals are like Liverpool/Arsenal football fans when it comes to political parties - "XXXXX is my team, win or lose"

Cheers

Squeaky
 

geordie_nev

Member
What The Hell's Going On?
Squeaky, I completely agree, in Turkey you get 10 newspapers each with their own slant or agenda, if you want to find about Turkish politics you need to read all ten and try and find some sort of common ground. There’re a few good independent freelance journalists around and they are worth their weight in gold.

The reality in Turkey is you tend to get two sides shouting at each other without any meaningful dialogue, of course preaching to their own supporters. At the moment I’m helping a group of Turkish journalist while they are in London learning English and I’m always shocked at just how blinkered they can be. Whatever happened to the first rule of journalism – listen to both sides of the argument.

I read the article about the four soldiers killed by the hand grenade a few months back, really horrific; also I was in Turkey when the Susurluk scandal happened. You just need to do a little research into the MHP’s past (Turkey’s BMP), and the “Grey Wolves” or maybe find out about why, one of the most popular PM’s in Turkey, Turgut Ozal was killed to understand the importance of the Ergenekon trail.
 
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