Kingfisher
Member
Turkish political road map
Thank you, Charlotte, that was really useful. And I don't feel quite as bad about feeling confused about who is who!
So can we criticise today's electorate for voting for a status quo rather than the turmoil of political alliances and merges and splits and coalition collapses and in-fighting?
So can we criticise today's electorate for voting for a status quo rather than the turmoil of political alliances and merges and splits and coalition collapses and in-fighting?
bal canavar
“Je suis l'humanité.”
Turkish political road map
Very good link Charlotte .
You know what they say Kingfisher
" they say you don't know what you have till it's gone"
its the like the air you breath ,the electorate may rue the day of being complacent and sticking with the Status Quo .
The electorate have a lot to lose this time around, if they allow a Presidency style governance. One without either checks or balances and a New Islamic Constitution . :speaknoev
You know what they say Kingfisher
" they say you don't know what you have till it's gone"
its the like the air you breath ,the electorate may rue the day of being complacent and sticking with the Status Quo .
The electorate have a lot to lose this time around, if they allow a Presidency style governance. One without either checks or balances and a New Islamic Constitution . :speaknoev
Kingfisher
Member
Turkish political road map
I'm fairly convinced Bal, but I wonder how the opposition parties are going to cope with having for years poured scorn and contempt on the unwashed uneducated corrupt pious poor, calling all AKP voters oiks, rednecks, yokels, bigots, köylu and kıro and then having to go door to door to beg the same uneducated religious köylu bigots to vote for them.
Turkish political road map
Erdogan will do everything in his power to stop HDP passing 10%, he wants enough votes for AKP so AKP can make new laws on their own he will try to stop people voting for other parties using any dirty tactics he can.
Erdogan wants Turkey to have just a president (himself) and no Prime Minister - is Davatoglu thick enough to do himself out of a job? The saying is that everyone has a price - we will have to wait & see.
Erdogan wants Turkey to have just a president (himself) and no Prime Minister - is Davatoglu thick enough to do himself out of a job? The saying is that everyone has a price - we will have to wait & see.
Kingfisher
Member
Turkish political road map
I'm fairly convinced Bal, but I wonder how the opposition parties are going to cope with having for years poured scorn and contempt on the unwashed uneducated corrupt pious poor, calling all AKP voters oiks, rednecks, yokels, bigots, köylu and kıro and then having to go door to door to beg the same uneducated religious köylu bigots to vote for them.
bal canavar
“Je suis l'humanité.”
Turkish political road map
It take it you want me to respond well .
That's a pretty broad brush Kingfisher to include all people in opposition parties of supposedly pouring scorn . There is some good people in these parties ,that have given up their time , put their families, careers at risk ,spent time in prison and on occasion risked their life by opposing the AKP, and to hopefully better the country and in turn the people you talk of .
Some of these people that supposedly poured scorn, opposition party members, support and are in unions ,even run unions, Why ? to improve conditions and health & safety of these people you call the pious, uneducated ,poor .
Yes there has been mistakes in the past by the ruling elite white Turks in disregard for the conservative religious community .
But times have changed and grassroot type parties like the HDP are more diverse pluralist rather than secularist. Not that being an opposition secularist is a bad thing , you seem to suggest to be a pious muslim ,you can’t be a member of an opposition secularist Party because they are the ones showing contempt to these religious people which is now misleading, even covered women are now being welcomed into the likes of the CHP so you can be secular in your politics and still be religious . The AKP doesn't have the monopoly on religion .
It seems you think the AKP being the Status Quo is the understandable choice for the people you call the uneducated pious ,poor etc because you think the opposition parties disrespected them well as shown above there has been changes .
Its now the AKP that is at fault and and shows contempt, condescending ,cynical and is using these same people you speak of .
In the past sadly in Turkish elections there has been illegal incentives to vote for a particular party which took many forms . And still does to an extent but what was once a clumsy attempt by the occasional municipality (of all Parties ) to bribe for a vote,
has become modernised and well organised by the AKP and made to look legit , it has also become more widespread and done in the form of political motivated welfare aid , and paid from Turkeys budget.
It is portrayed to look like the welfare aid given as a religious duty by the AKP so the recipients of this aid, the people you call the pious , uneducated think there role in return, is to give the vote to the AKP the people they perceive to be the benevolent benefactors, or lose the help of this social benefit aid . This is the modern form of vote buying on a grand scale and where the illegality comes in. 3 million families on aid .
If it was done with good faith I could understand ,but it is not they were providing financial and social assistance to low income families. in order to keep their vote.
What is worse is the ruling party don’t even attempt to assist these people , on how to find a way out their financial situation , but encourage the dependence on this assistance. for the AKP to still get the vote .
This is seen , by the rising amount of people needing this assistance .
As I said over 3 million families (how many of voting age in a family maybe doubling the amount of voters ) are receiving green card social aid. No wonder there has been a rise of fourfold in the aid budget ,I read recently.
This is only one of the things in the armoury of misuse, of municipalty , government an NGO’S facilities in a partisan way by the AKP
its not you I am getting at Kingfisher because I have read some of your posts and have agreed with you on some :angel: Its just this election is one of the most important for Turkey and the abuses should be highlighted and misconceptions addressed .
It take it you want me to respond well .
That's a pretty broad brush Kingfisher to include all people in opposition parties of supposedly pouring scorn . There is some good people in these parties ,that have given up their time , put their families, careers at risk ,spent time in prison and on occasion risked their life by opposing the AKP, and to hopefully better the country and in turn the people you talk of .
Some of these people that supposedly poured scorn, opposition party members, support and are in unions ,even run unions, Why ? to improve conditions and health & safety of these people you call the pious, uneducated ,poor .
Yes there has been mistakes in the past by the ruling elite white Turks in disregard for the conservative religious community .
But times have changed and grassroot type parties like the HDP are more diverse pluralist rather than secularist. Not that being an opposition secularist is a bad thing , you seem to suggest to be a pious muslim ,you can’t be a member of an opposition secularist Party because they are the ones showing contempt to these religious people which is now misleading, even covered women are now being welcomed into the likes of the CHP so you can be secular in your politics and still be religious . The AKP doesn't have the monopoly on religion .
It seems you think the AKP being the Status Quo is the understandable choice for the people you call the uneducated pious ,poor etc because you think the opposition parties disrespected them well as shown above there has been changes .
Its now the AKP that is at fault and and shows contempt, condescending ,cynical and is using these same people you speak of .
In the past sadly in Turkish elections there has been illegal incentives to vote for a particular party which took many forms . And still does to an extent but what was once a clumsy attempt by the occasional municipality (of all Parties ) to bribe for a vote,
has become modernised and well organised by the AKP and made to look legit , it has also become more widespread and done in the form of political motivated welfare aid , and paid from Turkeys budget.
It is portrayed to look like the welfare aid given as a religious duty by the AKP so the recipients of this aid, the people you call the pious , uneducated think there role in return, is to give the vote to the AKP the people they perceive to be the benevolent benefactors, or lose the help of this social benefit aid . This is the modern form of vote buying on a grand scale and where the illegality comes in. 3 million families on aid .
If it was done with good faith I could understand ,but it is not they were providing financial and social assistance to low income families. in order to keep their vote.
What is worse is the ruling party don’t even attempt to assist these people , on how to find a way out their financial situation , but encourage the dependence on this assistance. for the AKP to still get the vote .
This is seen , by the rising amount of people needing this assistance .
As I said over 3 million families (how many of voting age in a family maybe doubling the amount of voters ) are receiving green card social aid. No wonder there has been a rise of fourfold in the aid budget ,I read recently.
This is only one of the things in the armoury of misuse, of municipalty , government an NGO’S facilities in a partisan way by the AKP
its not you I am getting at Kingfisher because I have read some of your posts and have agreed with you on some :angel: Its just this election is one of the most important for Turkey and the abuses should be highlighted and misconceptions addressed .
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teosgirl
Member
Turkish political road map
You can see that the CHP have been gaining ground in past years, I think this shows the awakening of the wider Turkish electorate.
As for your comment bal - In the past sadly in Turkish elections there has been illegal incentives to vote for a particular party which took many forms . And still does to an extent but what was once a clumsy attempt by the occasional municipality (of all Parties ) to bribe for a vote.
I agree completely. The benefit of having a large number of low income working class is that they will want to believe any promise of extra aid, and when a little help arrives, that appreciation turns into votes. Imagine, how rich the AKP ministers have become in the past few years, but the AKP voters don't mind! As long as they feel they're getting a (tiny) financial benefit too, they'll continue the status quo.
Below are a couple of this years pre-election carrots:
Turkey to pay 2 billion liras to support farmers by end of February: PM - ECONOMICS
Turkey?s GDP to rise to $25,000 under presidential system: Erdo?an - POLITICS
I'm sure we'll see plenty more to come.
Charlotte
As for your comment bal - In the past sadly in Turkish elections there has been illegal incentives to vote for a particular party which took many forms . And still does to an extent but what was once a clumsy attempt by the occasional municipality (of all Parties ) to bribe for a vote.
I agree completely. The benefit of having a large number of low income working class is that they will want to believe any promise of extra aid, and when a little help arrives, that appreciation turns into votes. Imagine, how rich the AKP ministers have become in the past few years, but the AKP voters don't mind! As long as they feel they're getting a (tiny) financial benefit too, they'll continue the status quo.
Below are a couple of this years pre-election carrots:
Turkey to pay 2 billion liras to support farmers by end of February: PM - ECONOMICS
Turkey?s GDP to rise to $25,000 under presidential system: Erdo?an - POLITICS
I'm sure we'll see plenty more to come.
Charlotte
Turkish political road map
Bribes for votes include coal - now winter is nearly over.
Coal for Votes: Erdogan?s AKP distributes ?election coal? in Kurdistan | www.kurdishdailynews.org
I also heard that the AKP Mayor in Ankara keeps land and only sells it to people who vote for AKP, I don't have an article.
Coal for Votes: Erdogan?s AKP distributes ?election coal? in Kurdistan | www.kurdishdailynews.org
I also heard that the AKP Mayor in Ankara keeps land and only sells it to people who vote for AKP, I don't have an article.
Kingfisher
Member
Turkish political road map
Sadly, not all in the past. The CHP candidate in one of the constituencies here posts disparaging remarks on his Facebook page using the words kıro and köylu and posting photos of farm animals wearing headscarves.
Sadly, not all in the past. The CHP candidate in one of the constituencies here posts disparaging remarks on his Facebook page using the words kıro and köylu and posting photos of farm animals wearing headscarves.
bal canavar
“Je suis l'humanité.”
Turkish political road map
If that is true it is sad ,but certainly not party policy , nor representative of the CHP , as with UK politics you do get people who go off message.
But I am not defending this type of language . but don't understand why you don't put a link or the name of this senator/candidate so we can all see who this racist is.
As a counter balance you don't have to check the facebooks of AKP senators to find out their Sexist views on women and their place in the country as they view them publicly in the media.
Their exPM and now president who is meant to represent the whole electorate,denigrates openly part of that electorate The part that doesn't agree with him or has the temerity to criticze him. He uses lies and a language that is normally used or comes from the gutter, and quite openly in the media
You only have to look to the lies and language used in the Kabataş incident by Erdogan, and reported in his mouthpiece media even when it has been proven to be untrue.
So if you can name and shame this CHP Bigot . :horse:
But I am not defending this type of language . but don't understand why you don't put a link or the name of this senator/candidate so we can all see who this racist is.
As a counter balance you don't have to check the facebooks of AKP senators to find out their Sexist views on women and their place in the country as they view them publicly in the media.
Their exPM and now president who is meant to represent the whole electorate,denigrates openly part of that electorate The part that doesn't agree with him or has the temerity to criticze him. He uses lies and a language that is normally used or comes from the gutter, and quite openly in the media
You only have to look to the lies and language used in the Kabataş incident by Erdogan, and reported in his mouthpiece media even when it has been proven to be untrue.
So if you can name and shame this CHP Bigot . :horse:
kemerkid
Bystander
Turkish political road map
There could well be light at the end of the tunnel if Kemal Dervis joins a successful CHP after the elections. Dervis is the man who set up all the reforms in banking and finance here in Turkey fifteen years ago without which the AKP would not have succeded, they followed his proposals but sadly we all know how they manipulated the scheme to benefit the few rather than the many.
It is hoped that this will capture the liberal vote here in Turkey and make the difference.
Former UNDP head joins opposition CHP - POLITICS
There are of course a few new or revamped parties vying for power as well including VATAN which is another left wing democratic party. The future looks bright if we get a free and fair election.
It is hoped that this will capture the liberal vote here in Turkey and make the difference.
Former UNDP head joins opposition CHP - POLITICS
There are of course a few new or revamped parties vying for power as well including VATAN which is another left wing democratic party. The future looks bright if we get a free and fair election.
bal canavar
“Je suis l'humanité.”
Turkish political road map
Kemal Dervis Good to see he is back on board . The True architect of Turkeys economic rise. The one the AKP has taken credit for all these years till RTE started his idelogical meddling in CB .
The policy of ex World Bank Economist Kemal Dervis CHP economic minister 2001/2. Who did all the heavy lifting with major structural changes to the banking and economic sector but received none of the accolades . He was the one who broke the mold of politicians interfering with the CB, by making it independent. (he is worth reading about ) stabalizing the lira and the start in reducing inflation ,securing of much needed IMF loans at the time.
The policy of ex World Bank Economist Kemal Dervis CHP economic minister 2001/2. Who did all the heavy lifting with major structural changes to the banking and economic sector but received none of the accolades . He was the one who broke the mold of politicians interfering with the CB, by making it independent. (he is worth reading about ) stabalizing the lira and the start in reducing inflation ,securing of much needed IMF loans at the time.
bal canavar
“Je suis l'humanité.”
Turkish political road map
AK Party conducts pretext hiring for election ploy
The AK Party announces openings for jobs to plant trees, even though the season for planting has already passed, in what appears to be an ploy to purchase votes with public money.
AK Party conducts pretext hiring for election ploy
The AK Party announces openings for jobs to plant trees, even though the season for planting has already passed, in what appears to be an ploy to purchase votes with public money.
AK Party conducts pretext hiring for election ploy
okedokenow
Member
Turkish political road map
Thank you very much for that link Charlotte it was very informative and as I admit that I know nothing of Turkish politics let alone parties it did help. I have just read when MPs leave the chamber on James site so I think I will visit it again. I have bookmarked it for the future. Now the big question is if he is biased, because the page about cracks in the AKP is also interesting but if it is a slanted viewpoint then not so good. I know that some Turkish papers such as the Sabah are very biased to the point they are unreliable as a true sorse of what is actualy happening or citizens are thinking.
bal canavar
“Je suis l'humanité.”
Turkish political road map
I don't understand the Turkish opposition sometimes it should be a concerted effort surely, to rid this country of this undemocratic regime the ruling party and the future dictatorship that is sure to come if they don't .
Instead we have a missed timed step by the HDP in risking it all ,and its 35 seats to the AK parti on the chance of reaching the 10% barrage . Something they haven't done before.
Now we have the Nationalist religious right who if they formed an alliance which had been proposed who have denied the AKP a good chunk of the religious right vote. The BBP and Felicity Party (SP) were for giving Erdogan a bloody nose but the MHP have declined the offer .
They should forget their self interests for once ,because if they don't get their act together for this election they will be puppets in a one man rule regime with their interests stifled . No wonder RTE runs rings round these people who act like political novices . :35:
Instead we have a missed timed step by the HDP in risking it all ,and its 35 seats to the AK parti on the chance of reaching the 10% barrage . Something they haven't done before.
Now we have the Nationalist religious right who if they formed an alliance which had been proposed who have denied the AKP a good chunk of the religious right vote. The BBP and Felicity Party (SP) were for giving Erdogan a bloody nose but the MHP have declined the offer .
They should forget their self interests for once ,because if they don't get their act together for this election they will be puppets in a one man rule regime with their interests stifled . No wonder RTE runs rings round these people who act like political novices . :35:
bickern
Member
Turkish political road map
I have always said that one of the reasons for the AKP success has been the lack of a credible opposition, maybe now could be the time that the AKP will garner less seats which does not bode well for the presidential changes or the general constitutional changes Arty wants.
It could well be interesting, after reading Charlotte's link from 'James in Turkey' how many new parties will survive after the election.
I have always said that one of the reasons for the AKP success has been the lack of a credible opposition, maybe now could be the time that the AKP will garner less seats which does not bode well for the presidential changes or the general constitutional changes Arty wants.
It could well be interesting, after reading Charlotte's link from 'James in Turkey' how many new parties will survive after the election.
tykatem
Available in sarcastic to
Turkish political road map
It would seem that all's not sweetness and light within the AKP ......
AKP's internal tensions finally erupt
It has been rumored in Ankara lately that tension is growing among Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) elites, in particular between the “palace” of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and the government led by Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu. In return, AKP spokesmen and propagandists reiterated that this false news was manufactured by opposition figures whose only aim was to create “fitna,” an Islamic term for internal strife that roughly corresponds to sedition. Yet, thanks to a series of stunning statements by Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc, the fitna erupted in a way that nobody could deny.
Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc, one of the three founders of the AKP, with Erdogan and Abdullah Gul, criticized Erdogan’s outburst against the government-led “peace process” with Kurdish militants. “[Erdogan’s] statements that ‘I didn’t like it’ or ‘I don’t approve of this and that’ are his emotional remarks,” Arinc told journalists in a surprisingly defiant tone. “It’s the government that is running the country and the responsibility belongs to the government,” he said, sending to Erdogan a clear know-your-limits message.
“What worries Erdogan is the vote the AKP will get in the election. The HDP [Kurdish People's Democracy Party] is raising its votes, as well as the MHP [Nationalist Action Party]. As a result, the AKP may still win the elections but fall quite short of the necessary number of seats to amend the constitution. In that case, Ahmet Davutoglu can still continue as prime minister, whereas Erdogan’s dreams of a super-presidency can evaporate.”
Read more: AKP's internal tensions finally erupt - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East
Pete
AKP's internal tensions finally erupt
It has been rumored in Ankara lately that tension is growing among Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development Party (AKP) elites, in particular between the “palace” of President Recep Tayyip Erdogan and the government led by Prime Minister Ahmet Davutoglu. In return, AKP spokesmen and propagandists reiterated that this false news was manufactured by opposition figures whose only aim was to create “fitna,” an Islamic term for internal strife that roughly corresponds to sedition. Yet, thanks to a series of stunning statements by Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc, the fitna erupted in a way that nobody could deny.
Deputy Prime Minister Bulent Arinc, one of the three founders of the AKP, with Erdogan and Abdullah Gul, criticized Erdogan’s outburst against the government-led “peace process” with Kurdish militants. “[Erdogan’s] statements that ‘I didn’t like it’ or ‘I don’t approve of this and that’ are his emotional remarks,” Arinc told journalists in a surprisingly defiant tone. “It’s the government that is running the country and the responsibility belongs to the government,” he said, sending to Erdogan a clear know-your-limits message.
“What worries Erdogan is the vote the AKP will get in the election. The HDP [Kurdish People's Democracy Party] is raising its votes, as well as the MHP [Nationalist Action Party]. As a result, the AKP may still win the elections but fall quite short of the necessary number of seats to amend the constitution. In that case, Ahmet Davutoglu can still continue as prime minister, whereas Erdogan’s dreams of a super-presidency can evaporate.”
Read more: AKP's internal tensions finally erupt - Al-Monitor: the Pulse of the Middle East
Pete
