Turkish Council Tax for co-operatives

[Yvonne Delahaye]

Hi everyone

I own a villa near Yalikvak on a co-operative site, which I bought 3 years ago. In the autumn the management informed us that we had to pay 15 years of back council taxes! We do not have the tapu. I believe some residents have paid these back taxes, but as yet I haven't. Anyone got any ideas about how I could contact the council direct and find out more about the legalities of the situation? Tried to get some legal advice, but it would cost more than the taxes owed!

many thanks
Yvonne

 

[RIK]

Try the offices of the local council.For a small charge they should show you if money is owed on your property.

Ian

 

[gren]

Site fees (to ko-op management) are due when you take over the TAPU.
As you don't have the TAPU, you are not liable for any site fees yet.

But I believe Council Tax (Belediye) is also due from when you take over the TAPU.

You emlak or yönetici should have told you about registering for the council tax when you bought your house. A fine is due to the council (Belediye) for non-payment (I don't think there is compound interest on it though).

As RIK says, go to Yalikavak Belediye, take some baklava and ask them if your house owes council tax. They will then ask for your Tapu. As you have not got it, how can you be liable? Surely the ko-op management is liable?

 

[Guz1]

I wouldn't be so sure, Gren, that the Co-op Management would be liable for the taxes. As collective owners of the site wouldn't the Co-operative be liable for any taxes and individual members of the co-op liable for an amount proportionate to their shares?

 

[gren]

Hmmm....maybe so.....but before the house was bought?
If so, where does it end?
Members being liable for anything caused by bad management action/inaction?

You might have a point...

 

[Guz1]

We had a similar problem with our house.....not with taxes but something to do with the caretaker's wages or social security payments. Everyone's aydat was increased to cover the cost and we were a bit miffed that we had to contribute but This is Turkey.

In Yvonne's case, much might depend on the co-op's Articles of Association, whether she bought her house from the co-operative itself or from a former member of the co-operative in which case the seller should have signed over to her his shares in the co-op and all that that entails. It's normal in Turkey for the new owner to take on all the property's debts unless there is something to the contrary written into the sales contract.

 

[christinedavid]

Yvonne, if you don't have the Tapu then I'm afraid you don't legally own the property.Added to which, you are not responsible for paying any local taxes. You don't say when your villa was built, but I expect it is only 3 years old.Since the local tax relates to the value of the property on the Tapu, there can't be taxes due dating back 15 years for a 3 year old villa. There could be taxes due on the land (I don't know) and the owner of the land is responsible for this. It is up to your solicitor to check that there are no debts outstanding on your property when you buy it. Someone, probably the builder, must have the Tapu for the land and will be responsible for any outstanding taxes on the land. If a tapu exists for the villa, then the named person on it has to pay the taxes.In a nutshell, you can't be liable, but then nor do you own the villa. When we bought our villa, which was finished in 2006, there was a delay with getting the Tapu in our names because of the military clearance fiasco. So it was put in the estate agents' name. We had a legal contract with them regarding this until our military clearance came through (in 2008) when the Tapu was transfered into our names. The estate agent was liable for, and paid, the local taxes up to that point. Sorry this is a bit long winded but I hope it helps. It seems to me that your lack of Tapu is of far more importance than the taxes you mention.

 

[alison09400]

Co-operatives are a totally different ball game than buying a property on a normal complex. A Co-operative can be formed long before's any work done on the Site...and from the time of formation the members of the Co-op have to pay a monthly charge. This monthly charge is totally separate from the monthly maintenance charges.
As Yvonne is now a member of her Co-operative (even though she doesn't have the Tapu) with her details entered into the Co-operatives "books", she may be liable to pay along with everybody else.

Also regarding annual property tax....yes this does run up interest on every month you are overdue.

 

[gummus]

We never had to pay any council tax on our house until the co-operative was disolved and the tapus issued. However we are not an expert on this issue and would not like to say that the co-operative as a whole did not pay any taxes as they could have been included within our monthly payments. Are you being asked to pay this to the co-operative or directly to the council?

 

[JohnF]

Yvonne, if you don't have the Tapu then I'm afraid you don't legally own the property.

Thats complete nonsense, as is the rest of your post - and given the original posters situation, no help or comfort.

If it is a co-op then no, Tapu's are not issued until the co-op is dissolved - until then you own a share(s) in the co-op and this is as good as having deeds in as much as it can be sold on or money borrowed against it.

Site fees (to ko-op management) are due when you take over the TAPU.
As you don't have the TAPU, you are not liable for any site fees yet.

Again, this is completely wrong; your co-op fees are due irrespective of the situation regarding the deeds - try not paying your co-op fees and see what happens...!

As far as council tax is concerned - I believe this changes from area to area depending on agreements with the relevant belidiye; one of our properties is on a co-op and we do not pay council tax. However, this co-op was initiated by the local belediye so that may have a bearing.

The best (and really only) people to speak to are firstly your baskan, and if you dont get any joy there, the co-ops accountant. Wont do any harm to pop into the belediye as well and have a word. You'll find the name and address of the account on your copy of the accounts and if you go to the belediye, take all relevant documentation including (most importantly) your co-op share documents.

If there are 15yrs worth of debts (of any kind) then this should have been picked up at the time of sale.

JF

 

[Peregrine]

definitely a lot of misinformation in some of the previous posts - thanks John for pointing out some of the more glaring errors

Ownership - if you are on a Ko-op and dont have a TAPU then technically all you own is the KO-OP share. In practice you own the house

It is also important to understand what tax you are being asked to pay. There are monthly site fees that need to be paid to the Ko-op - often called the Aidat. As a member you have to pay them irrespective of the Tapu situation

The council property tax (which is pretty small) is probably only payable one you have the Tapu (as thats when the property is registered with the Belediye and the value decalred). i am not 100% sure on that last point so worth chwecking with alawyer

As for the 15 years owing - wasnt the property certified as debt free by your lawyer when you bought it? (assuming you used a lawyer). If you didnt then cough up as the sum is too small to worry about (but then they see you arev a soft touch and will always be after you for more). The 15 years bit seems to be a nonsense so you ought to challenge that

I would talk it thru with a lawyer to be on the safe side