KKOB

Completely Chillaxed
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
Make what you will of the statistics:

This year saw 1,324,000 students take the university admissions exam. They answered the same questions at the same time, but 30,000 of them scored no points. Sixty percent skipped the science questions and 251,000 were unable to answer even one single math question. Only 8,655 students answered all the math questions correctly.

Today's Zamam
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
Those must be the ones that didn't have the benefit of going to a dershane.

It appears though that it doesn't really matter because unless you graduate from Middle East Technical University (METÜ) and Ankara University, Bosporus University, Istanbul Technical University, Bilkent University and Istanbul University, then you haven't much of a chance of securing a good job.


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eldivenci

Member
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
The article doesn't give enough background to help foreign readers understand what is going on. The main issue is more about measurement techniques than educational standards. We need to take the following into account:
1. The marking system. Correct answers get a mark but wrong answers get negative points. A wrong answer gets -0.25 points. It is therefore better to give no answer than to give a wrong one.
2. Not answering any Maths questions is a tactic used by candidates who know they are not going to get a very high score but are hoping to get through with knowledge in Turkish and humanities subjects only.
3. 30000 getting ‘nul points’ is only about 2.5% of all candidates. They gave up and did not answer properly or tried to answer all questions and got 20 right and 80 wrong.
4. It is not surprising that only 8,655 got all maths answers right, they are extremely difficult. One of the main aims of the exam in all subject areas is to allocate places at universities according to rank order and to find the very very best for scholarships at top private universities.
5. The overall purpose of the system is to allocate very scarce educational resources (about 450000 university places) as fairly as possible between a big number of candidates (1.3 million).
6. An element of unfairness in the system is the role of private education that enables parents to buy success to some extent. There are private schools that offer smaller class size and private dersanes that are cramming schools for the ÖSS.
7. There are a few positive discrimination measures in place that give a helping hand to students from deprived areas, for example the top student in every school gets extra points, and vocational schools get extra points to help their students get into university to study their chosen vocation. These measures do not have much effect.
8. As bribery and neoptism are widespread, they have tried to remove human judgements from the system as much as possible, so all the candidates answer the same questions at the same time, an amazing operation.
9. The system is creaking and clearly unsatisfactory, but it is difficult to find anything better because the educational resources are so scarce. Turkey is trying very hard in extremely difficult circumstances.
10. It is not true that only graduates from the top universities get good jobs, but it is true that graduates of the top universities are preferred by employers, just as they are in every country in the world.

Note: giving negative marks for wrong answers is widespread in the USA but is hotly debated in education circles. Supporters say the practice discourages guessing. Opponents say it tests candidates ability to predict right answers, so it doesn’t just test subject knowledge. Things like self-confidence and coaching probably affect results more because of this practice.
 

KKOB

Completely Chillaxed
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
And, you are who ? :wink:

You might get a more positive response to this post if you take the time to introduce yourself in the appropriate section of the forum.
 

kaplumba

Member
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
Despite Eldivenci's lack of forum manners, I found this an interesting post. I find the negative point system crazy though as this discourages students from giving it some thought and maybe thinking outside the box. People who are able to think their way around problems are the ones we need in this world, they make the best scientists, engineers, teachers, diplomats etc.
 
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
Eldivenci's post confirms what I have been told by many education specialists. It explains why so many Turks scrape the money together to provide their children with the extra help they need to have any chance of a university education.
 

eldivenci

Member
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
And, you are who ? :wink:

You might get a more positive response to this post if you take the time to introduce yourself in the appropriate section of the forum.

Why should I care whether I get a positive response? I was just giving you some information I thought you might be interested in. Sorry for breaking the netiquette, but if this is the snooty way I get asked to watch my ps and qs I shall be happy not to post any more and delete myself from the system.
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
Don't do that eldivenci - your post was informative and interesting and I'd like to hear more.

May I suggest you say hello in the introductions forum for the benefit of us old codgers heheh


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kaplumba

Member
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
Eldivenci - did you not notice KKOB's winking eye in that post? I think it was a bit tongue in cheek. However it is polite on any forum to introduce yourself before posting. I found your post very interesting as education all over the world fascinates me and we can all learn from each others systems. I for one would like to learn more about it from you and perhaps know a little more about your background. I am a UK teacher and lecturer who has taken part in teacher exchanges and Comenius projects in several countries including Turkey.
Many people here have asked about education in Turkey when thinking about relocating. Maybe you could give them valuable information.
 

bickern

Member
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
Why should I care whether I get a positive response? I was just giving you some information I thought you might be interested in. Sorry for breaking the netiquette, but if this is the snooty way I get asked to watch my ps and qs I shall be happy not to post any more and delete myself from the system.

I for one found your post interesting and informative.
 

Molly Kaya

Top Dog
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
I also found the post very interesting and informative .

Rightly or wrongly, I always imagine that I'm discussing something with someone on here, and if a complete stranger suddenly poked their nose into the conversation my first reaction would be "Hey, who the woof do you think you are?" (or something similar).
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
I think you're barking up the wrong tree there Molly :lol:


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eldivenci

Member
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
I feel like I’ve had an encounter with the air raid warden in Dad’s army. Oh dear, I seem to have stumbled over kayaköyoldsomethingorother’s personal obsession by not introducing myself. I had no idea it was such a heinous crime. The response ‘And, you are who?’ seemed rather rude at the time, ironically so, as it was a complaint about my manners, and was scarcely mitigated by the emoticon, which might have been a friendly wink with a smile, or could equally have been an aggressive one-eyed look through gritted teeth. However, since I have been inundated with a PM of support I have not taken my ball home.

Comparison has been made with someone barging into a conversation in a pub. Well, let’s imagine in the public bar there is a conversation that a stranger wants to join. He has overheard some Arsenal supporters saying a goal was offside, and would like them to consider some facts concerning the offside law. I don’t think it is normal for him to say “excuse me, I am Kevin, I’ve got a nice little semi just round the corner, I’ve lived there happily with my wife and two children for six years and I was born in Chipping Sodbury 46 years ago, but I really would like to tell you that the offside law now says etc etc”. He wouldn’t say that, now, would he?

Also, still in the pub, in order to introduce himself Kevin actually has to go to a completely different part of the pub, well away from where the conversation he wants to join, so he leaves the public bar and goes to the saloon bar or the toilet and introduces himself to a completely different set of people there (if it’s the toilet he would watch out for the winking ones), and then he comes back and explains the current offside law, but someone says “And, you are who?” I don’t think a terribly friendly exchange would ensue, would it?

I see from another thread just started on introductions that 50% of people don’t think intros are necessary, 18% don’t give a monkey’s and less than a third think they should be provided. As I believe in democracy I am inclined not to give any information about myself, but if you really want to know who I am I might tell you that I hold a faculty position at a state university here in Turkey, and my experience of this country goes back two decades, and I have two children working their way through state schools here, so I might have some useful knowledge to share about education in Turkey. Of course, I might be making it up, so if you want to bar me like Peggy Mitchell, go ahead KKOB, I won’t care at all.
 

kaplumba

Member
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
'I might tell you that I hold a faculty position at a state university here in Turkey, and my experience of this country goes back two decades, and I have two children working their way through state schools here, so I might have some useful knowledge to share about education in Turkey.'

Hi there - well that's the info I was looking for and thanks for sharing it with us. I don't need to know intimate details. When someone posts it's useful to just know something about them so that you can get a feel for the post. You could still be telling us a pack of lies but your original post seemed like you knew what you were talking about and now this snippet about you backs it up. Welcome to the forum and I'm sure there are plenty of parents who will welcome your knowledge. I shall look forward to their questions and your answers.
 

KKOB

Completely Chillaxed
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
Welcome eldevenci.

Any fan of Peggy Mitchell working in a uni can't be all that bad. :roundgrin:
 

Guz1

Member
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
I hold a faculty position at a state university here in Turkey, and my experience of this country goes back two decades, and I have two children working their way through state schools here, so I might have some useful knowledge to share about education in Turkey.

Aw, shucks, I was hoping you were yet another ex-SAS man. If you're spoofing you could at least have mentioned MI5 or the CIA. There's another thread running about Ergenekon......if you're one of them maybe best to remain anonymous.

Welcome to TLF. Good to see fresh input, especially from someone living in Turkey. After a while you'll realise that KKOB has a quirky sense of humour. His bark is worse that Molly's bite.
 

Guz1

Member
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
Should have called yourself Tonto. Much easier to spell than eldivenci. :95im:

Apologies to everyone for staying off topic :focus:
 

Akasya

Postless Pointer
Turkey's Education System Collapsing
Glover is the name for a video game on Nintendo, is the name eldivenci relevant to same.

Welcome, Steve.
 

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