Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Shirley, this PM has, imho, past his sell by date, he appears pompous and arrogant, a huge parliamentary majority will do that for you, but let us not forget all promulgated laws must be passed by the democratically elected MP,s, thats as close as you will get to a democratic parliament and its a million miles away from unelected Generals running a country which is what a junta is.
Despite all the howling about unfair elections, Turkish elections pass the accepted international inspection tests for fairness and The PM has won a handy few of them.
You want rid of him? get an opposition that can convince a majority of Turks that he can do better, thats how Erdogan got into power.

In order to get people's support the opposition need to answer these questions.
Are they in favour of military coups?
Do they support a headscarf ban?


Kipper restorer
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
A little off thread but has anyone seen the piccies of the ammunition from the Russian plane? They must be back frfom Max Spielmans by now! :3:


Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
All of these events need to be seen in context. For most of the last 30 years the wives of the PM and president and their supporters, fellow MPs etc were not allowed to attend the official celebrations such as Republic Day because they cover their heads. The PM and supporters saw this as a personal affront and undemocratic. Now the presence of those women at official events is seen as an affront to the Republic and Atatürk by kemalists. The CHP frequently boycott official events and organised their own commemorations. The government see this as an affront to the Republic and democracy. The government is now using the law to prevent alternative commemorations, insisting that everyone joins the official Republic Day events and commemorations of Atatürk.

The ruling party gained a lot of sympathy because most people felt that banning covered women from such events was unfair and prevented the development of an inclusive republic. Now most people feel that preventing alternative commemorations by force is also unfair, as noted by the editor of the Daily news MURAT YETKÄ°N - ErdoÄŸan shoots himself in the foot

Kemalists, and those opposing the ruling party in general, are not one and the same; probably why the AKP retain power - not one opposition group has been formed which represents the remainder of the population.

Glad you raised the headscarf issue. The AKP have been able to make changes to several laws during their 10 year period of reign, why do you think they have been unable to overturn the headscarf ban in general, but have been able to clear the way for head-scarves to be worn during the new religious courses for 10 year olds?

When was the last time the law was challenged?

I am not in favour of the headscarf ban, but my personal opinion is that the PM likes to use this issue as a tool to keep women out of certain jobs, perhaps to keep more women at home having babies and ultimately to control them. What was it he said about democracy being a tool for the wider agenda?
You can be sure he doesn't view women as equal (he said so himself).

Ask yourself, has he genuinelymade an effort to address this issue?



Postless Pointer
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Me too Mary , but i hope by continuing to read i may be further educated.

Thanks guys.



The Penguin Rules
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
The recipe for upheaval are policies of betrayal from the leaders we vote in.
What is happening in Turkey with all these protests that are taking place is a hidden secret the system is denying.l heard Erdogan has 8 Swiss accounts with billions stashed away.Why does he want 8 off shore accounts for.And where did that money comne from.
The Turkish system is siding more on the lslamic countries[particually lran]another question that should be answered why The Turkish system taking a closer interest in a fanatical lslamic country.
l copied this comment from a another source
The Turkish PM, Erdogan, is a hardline Islamist (he served time in Turkish prison for such views) so it is no surprise that he's happy to support the assorted Taliban, Al Qaeda & Western Islamic 'freedom' fighters against Syria.

Erdoğan was banned from office and sentenced to a ten-month prison term for reciting a poem during a public address in the province of Siirt in 1997.

With hard line views like this has all the ingredients to create a backlash from the public
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Kipper restorer
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Got any details on Erdogans hidden millions Bob?, i remember the accusations he was in the pay of Iran, all disproved and withdrawn, can you quote valid sources?
So he was jailed for reading a poem, must have been some poem, and you advocate bringing back a regime that jails people for poem reading, how would that be an improvement?
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Got any details on Erdogans hidden millions Bob?, i remember the accusations he was in the pay of Iran, all disproved and withdrawn, can you quote valid sources?
So he was jailed for reading a poem, must have been some poem, and you advocate bringing back a regime that jails people for poem reading, how would that be an improvement?

pasted this just for you ...source Turkey Exposed ..his wealth is staggering

A word in his majesty Erdogan’s mouth these days is an analogy to ‘Clean Hands Operation in Italy’. He lately forces pro-Ataturk, Pro-Republic intellectuals and dissident writers, illustrators and opposing newspapers to go under a financial investigation, fire employees in TV institutions when he doesnt like what they write, he has them get arrested, imprisoned, while helping rising new supporting TV channels. One wonders why doesnt he ever let Kanal 7(Channel 7), Kanal 24(Channel 24) and Yeni Safak (New Dawn) newspaper go under financial investigation?
Lets go back to the days before these companies were founded and check out prosecutors’ indictments and inspectors’ reports. Before November 3rd, 2002 (election day).. 8 experts from ‘the Board of Account Experts’ at the Ministry of Finance written a 600 page report completed in two years. The reports were based on official documents and witnesses. According to the report, there is a $40 million fraud scheme. Some of the people involved were detained. Who were they?
About 70 people including Former Director General of IGDAS Fuat Sengul, Former Mayor of Istanbul and AKP Chairman Erdogan, Ironi Agency partner and Kanal 7 anchorman Ahmet Hakan Coskun, IGDAS Marketing and Sales Manager Ibrahim Mujdat Oguz, Ironi Agency partners Taci Erdemir and Mehmet Ozhusrev, Lonca Inc. employee Rasim Ozdemir and IGDAS officer Mahmut Yilmaz, IGDAS debt collector Metin Sahin, IGDAS Istanbul Anatolian Region Branch Assistant Manager Yusuf Aydinoglu.
Former Director General of IGDAS Fuat Sengul said ‘Why are you arresting just us while you do nothing to our superiors’ (referring Former Mayors Erdogan and Gurtuna) in his interrogation. Mehmet Sisman, who was taken into custody in relation to the front companies Erek Advertising and Er Offset used in payment of 1.5 trillion TL from IGDAS to Ironi Agency, said in his testimony: “Erdogan’s advisor Tufan Mengi called me and he said he needs fake invoices for IGDAS. So i introduced my friend Ayhan Erim, who does this type of work, to Tufan Mengi… I got 5 billion Turkish liras for introducing him”. Now, lets take a look at the report prepared by Civil Service Chief Inspector Candan Eren (He was first displaced, and is now related to Ergenekon and Balyon cases in which it is widely claimed that Erdogan sends whoever is opposing him to jail by using these two major cases) and then presented to SSC.
The report included allegations that Erdogan was involved in organized criminal activity, bid-rigging in auctions and making preparations for jihad.

Some of the allegations were committing organized crime, bid-rigging, favoritism, nepotism, overpayment, fraud, working for a secret cause, jihad preparation, embezzlement, oppression, neglecting the laws, failure to comply with money-saving measures in auctions, putting municipality at a huge loss by hiring third part people or companies for jobs that can be done by using municipal facilities..

Despite the reports and indictments, Erdogan stated in front of the cameras: ‘I am speaking very openly and directly, people who made these allegations should prove us to be guilty, otherwise they are low, dishonest, dishonorable people’. But they were proved guilty and after November 3rd, 2002, they got the diplomatic amnesty.

Erdogan claimed he cant live on a monthly salary of 9 billion TL.

Appearing as a dollar billionaire in 7 years, Erdogan says he cannt live on Prime Minister’s salary.

His wealth was announced as follows on the day he was a Istanbul Mayor candidate: ‘An apartment in Kasimpasa, a co-opt share at Maltepe, 376 square-meters of land at Bolluca-Gaziosmanpasa, 10% of the shares of Burak Food and Trading Limited Company’ (article published on Sabah on Feb 20, 1994)

7 years later, Rahmi Koc (one of Turkey’s wealthiest man) stated: “Mr Erdogan saved one billion dollars” (August 3, 2001, CNN Turk)

He bought a dry cargo ship to his son Ahmet Burak Erdogan for $2,323,000. There is still a joke going on about his statement after allegations about how he got all this money, he called the ship a ‘mini-ship’. (If you google ‘gemicik’, you can find out some good caricatures or comments.)
His other son Bilal Erdoan bought an apartment in the US for $216,000.
In addition, these two brothers own a villa worth of 1 trillion TL based on ‘deed records’. Erdogan bought a 450 square-foot similar villa in the same area for himself. He says, if he doesnt do trade, if he doesnt get money from trade, he cannt live on.

His wealth was announced on March 1, 2010:
376 square-meters of land at Bolluca-Gaziosmanpasa now worth 40 thousand TL and a 2000 square-meter land at Guneysu-Dumankaya village worth 10 thousand TL. In his bank accounts, after company stock sales, retirement bonuses, retirement and deputy salaries added, he has 2 million 366 thousand 109,95 TL (around 1 and a half million dollars 150534 183.42) in his bank account. Compared to September 2007 figures, his wealth increased 562 thousand 255 TL in cash and 187 thousand 500 in loans. Not to mention the wikileaks document about his 8 accounts in Swedish banks.
Minister of Finance, a defendant on trial for fake invoices.
Defendant Minister of Finance Kemal Unakitan’s son Abdullah Unakitan earns 366 billion TL sitting and doing nothing. But How?
On April 17, 2003, the customs duty on corn imports decreased by 20%. In august, his son imports 4000 tons of corn. After he is done, on August 8, the customs duty increased back to 45% again.
He also got involved in importing pasteurized eggs. First, his company, AB Food Ind. and Trade Co. is rewarded by 2.5 million TL worth of incentive offers and before he starts business, tax rates on pasteurized eggs is down to 8% from 18%.
In other words, Minister of Finance works for his own family.

Again Kemal Unakitan sold his own property to himself and he made 1 trillion 244 billion in 19 months. His company BEM Foreign Trade Inc. bought a real estate at Foca-Izmir for 15 billion TL. Same estate was sold to a private financial company on May 10. 2002 for 1 trillion 260 billion TL. Selling company’s partner is Kemal Unakitan same as buying company’s general manager.. He also got away without paying corporation tax and the company was liquidated.

219 auctions for road making in 13 days.
AKP government was formed on November 18, 2002. Yet in the first 13 days, till December 31, 2002, there were 219 road making auctions. Total procurement costs were 52 trillion and each auction was set up in a way that it wont exceed 750 billion TL, so they wont have to deal with Court of Accounts on any fraud investigation.
Why would a government who says they were never involved in corruption tries to escape from Court of Accounts inspection?

AKP supporter got $2 million worth project without an auction
Operating loading and unloading at TCDD (Turkish State Railroad Co.) Izmir Port which has a $70 million profit annually, was given to Reha Denizcilik (Reha Maritimes Co.) for 15 years without an auction. They have the option to extend the contract for 15 more years if they desire (total 30 years). The company was formed a week before the agreement. One of the biggest shareholder of this company is the Director Manager of AKP Bakirkoy County Rahmi Genc. He leaves the company after selling his shares.

The Savings Deposit Insurance Fund, administrated and represented by the Banking Regulation and Supervision Agency., purchased Ceylan Group-owned Delux Resort Hotel in Antalya for $52 million in exchange for the Ceylan Group’s debt owed to a bank. Then the hotel was sold to a pro-AKP company for $25 million. State had $27 million loss from this transaction.

Minister of Interior’s genius son
Minister of Interior, Abdulkadir Aksu – (who is alleged in at least one WikiLeaks document to have been seriously involved in illegal activity, ties to the heroin trade, well-known predilection for teenage girls, and his son’s open Mafia links. Ironically after wikileaks documents, he has been assigned to chair of the Wikileaks commission in the parliament to investigate if the allegations are true or not…) – runs an investigation/inspection for Turkey Jocket Club after he is assigned as the minister. Jockey Club hires his son Murat Aksu as company lawyer for a monthly salary of 7.5 billion TL.

Another privatization looting
Gemlik Fertilizer Industry Co was privatized for $83,1 million. Only the land the factory was built including 154 housing estates worth $120 million.

Only a small part of the land of Superbank privatized for $3 million 751 thousand was sold for $13 million 750 thousand.
Sumerbank founded 50 years ago by Cotton Fabrics Inc. was sold to a 47 partner Joint Venture Group (OGG) for $3 million 741 thousand by the Privatization High Council. The head of the OGG is Manisa AKP Mayor Bulent Kar. The group’s first act is to sell 55 acre portion of a total of 90 acres to KIPATESCO company for $13 million 750 thousand to build a shopping center. Thus company made quadrupled the profit in 4 and a half months. Moreover they have 35 more acres to sell. This also doesnt include the profit made from selling trillions worth of scrap. Bulent Kar clearly stated that the informal agreement between OGG and the Council didnt aim to ease the economy.

Minister of Transport Binali Yildirim’s son Erkan Yildirim bought a ship for 200 thousand euros in Italy by borrowing money from Santour GmbH in Germany. Binali Yildirim was the General Manager of Santour GmbH before becoming a deputy. In return, A ship owned by Turkey Maritime Enterprise was rented to Santour GmbH without an auction.

The AKP government sold 14.76% shares of TUPRAS (Turkey Oil Refinary Inc.) illegally to an Israeli businessman Ofer for $446 million after negotiations behind close doors. The shares worth proved to be much higher than this figure in 6 months when an auction was held to sell 51% stake. Council of State decreed the auction as illegal but the ruling never took effect.
Erdogan claimed he never met Ofer, then he admitted he saw him once. It appears he met him several times.

Kemal Unakitan met Ofer family multiple times to talk about auction negotiations for Kusadasi, Galataport (claimed to be one of the biggest looting and reconstruction rant but the auction was canceled and trying to re-auction) and Tupras.

Following list has been prepared as of September 5, 2002, but updated as of January 20,2011. Today a lot of names mentioned in this list are members of the parliament and serve as ministers in Parliament, which provides them a diplomatic amnesty. Here is the list of the bureaucrats accused of corruption including Municipal Company General Managers, County Mayors, Municipal Contractors and close friends of Recep Erdogan, who served in the Municipality of Istanbul.

Kemal Unakitan: Minister of Finance between 2002-2009, still a member of the parliament. He has 9 different cases and charged for organizing criminal activity and embezzlement. Ironic that he got the “Finance Minister of the Year award by a magazine called The Banker.

Idris Naim Sahin: AKP member of the Board of Founders. Former General Secretary of the Istanbul Municipality. He is a deputy in the Parliament. Defendant of Akbil and ALBAYRAKLAR cases.

Mehmet Mustafa Acikalin: Former General Secretary of the Istanbul Municipality. He is a deputy in the Parliament. Defendant of Akbil, ALBAYRAKLAR and IGDAS cases.

Akif Gulle: Vice-Chairman of the AKP. Former Head of Department of Personnel at Istanbul Municipality. He is a deputy in the Parliament. Defendant of Billboard case.

M. Hilmi Guler: Vice-Chairman of the AKP. He is the Minister of Energy and Natural Sources in the Parliament. Defendant of IGDAS case.

Adem Basturk: He is again the general secretary of the Istanbul Municipality. He got this job during Gurtuna’s term and dismissed by Minister of Interior inspectors. He was a candidate for the Parliament in the last elections. Defendant of Albayraklar and IGDAS cases.

Huseyin Besli: Former Press Adviser to the Municipality of Istanbul. Member of the Parliament in 2nd term. Defendant of IGDAS case.

Hamza Albayrak: Istanbul Municipality, the former Chairman of the Audit Committee. He is a deputy in the Parliament, had lawsuits for misconduct as well.

Nevzat Pakdil: IETT former Director General. He is a deputy in the Parliament.

Mehmet Ali Bulut: The AKP member of the Board of Founders. ISTON (Istanbul Concrete Elements and Ready-Mix Concrete Factories Ind. and Trade Co. – a municipal company) former member of the board. He is a deputy in the Parliament.

Mikail Arslan: Istanbul Municipality, the former Director of Slum Housing Department. He is a deputy in the Parliament. Defendant of Akbil case.

Mehmet Mehdi Eker, Istanbul Municipality, the former Director of Veterinary Medicine. He is the Minister of Agriculture.

Zulfu Demirbag: istanbul Municipality, the former Director of Road Maintenance. He was a deputy in the Parliament. Defendant of Albayraklar case.

Mustafa Ilıcalı: Istanbul Municipality, the former head of Research Planning and Coordination Department. He is a deputy in the Parliament. Defendant of Albayraklar case.

Ali Mazak: Istanbul Municipality, the former Director of Cemeteries. He was a parliament candidate during 22. term now he is the head of directorate of libraries and museums, istanbul Municipality.

Selami Uzun: Istanbul Municipality former Head of Control Department which manages municipal police as well. ALBAYRAK defendant case. He is a deputy in the Parliement. Defendant of Albayraklar case and he was facing 36 years of prison.

Lokman Ayva: Former Disability Coordination Director of the Municipality of Istanbul. Istanbul 3 regional parliamentary candidate. He is a deputy in the Parliement.

Binali Yildirim: Former Director General of Istanbul Sea Buses. Following the rumors he was sacked by Gurtuna for renting


The Penguin Rules
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
"WoW",shirley.That is shocking,to say the least.Those that deny are those that needs to be investigated to find the truth of what they are hiding.
l haven't read it all yet.But what l read shocked me


Kipper restorer
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
"WoW",shirley.That is shocking,to say the least.Those that deny are those that needs to be investigated to find the truth of what they are hiding.
l haven't read it all yet.But what l read shocked me

Bob, you are no stranger to the harm unfounded acusations can do, so again can you offer your sources and reply with your validation.
I am no great fan of the PM but these constant rumours and innuendo start to grate after a while, if he is bent, show some validation not just others accusations.
This may help, from Hurrriyet

Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan’s financial assets and the way he made “his fortune” were the subjects of two of the cables sent by the U.S. Embassy in Ankara, documents leaked as part of a release late Sunday by the whistle-blowing website WikiLeaks.

“We have heard from two contacts that Erdoğan has eight accounts in Swiss banks; his explanations that his wealth comes from the wedding presents guests gave his son and that a Turkish businessman is paying the educational expenses of all four Erdoğan children in the U.S. purely altruistically are lame,” Eric Edelman, a former U.S. ambassador to Turkey, wrote in a cable sent to Washington on Dec. 30, 2004.

Edelman, who has been outspoken in his criticism of Turkey’s ruling Justice and Development Party, or AKP, argued that the widespread corruption would be an important factor that could degrade Erdoğan’s ability to run the country.

In a separate cable sent in July 2004, Edelman claimed that “an anonymous source told [him] that Erdoğan and [the source] benefited directly from the award of the Tüpraş privatization to a consortium including a Russian partner.”

The Turkish Petroleum Refineries Corporation, or Tüpraş, is the state petroleum refinery. A Russian-Turkish consortium paid nearly $1.3 billion for the privatization of the country’s largest-capacity refinery in 2004.

“[The] AKP rode to power on the common citizens’ revulsion against corruption. Charges that Erdoğan amassed his fortune through kickbacks as mayor of Istanbul have never been proven, but we now hear more and more from insiders that close advisors such as private secretary Hikmet Bulduk, Mücahit Arslan and Cüneyd Zapsu are engaging in wholesale influence peddling,” Edelman said in the cable.

Diplomatic title tattle, disproved years ago, perhaps that anonymous source was from this very forum.

What are your thoughts again on jailing people for reading poems?
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The Penguin Rules
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
l do have my suspicions on what the Turkish papers are allowed to publish now because of the fear of being jailed for revealing the truth.With over a thousand journalist sent away and the many senoir military jailed including the whistle blowers within the society,tells me erdogan has something to hide.That tells me who to believe and who l should be suspicious of.
Accusation are not the same as seeking the truth and questions must be allowed the freedom to get to the truth.Surely everyone in a free society[as they claim]has the right to the truth.lf there is a smoking gun,there is an ammo that has been fired from that gun
Here is just one of the links l went into.Erdogan calls WikiLeaks docs 'gossip' - Israel News, Ynetnews
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Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Was the poem in question the one that talks of mosques in terms of the domes are our helmets and the minarets are our bayonets? This was interpreted be some not only as a rallying call for militant-political Islam but also an implied threat of armed militancy.


Kipper restorer
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Was it a loaded poem?, FFS guys it was a poem! He was jailed, if he jailed someone for reading a poem he would be torn apart on this forum, cant have it both ways, wrong for Erdogan to do it but right for anyone else.

Bob, like my link that is years old, long dismissed and disproved, i will file it under, "man in the pub says" along with the "Iran pays Erdogan" and "Erdogan is like Hitler cos they both have moustaches" stories, calling of names in itself is not proof of corruption, innocent untill proven comes to mind
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Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
From Aftenposten, the larges Norwegian newspaper:

Erdogan tightens grip

While Turkey's prime minister is becoming more powerful, the journalists and dissidents are being jailed. The country's struggle for EU membership gives Recep Tayyip Erdogan pretext to remove opponents, says a researcher.

Erdogan strammer grepet - Aftenposten


EU pressures Erdogan gives more power
Turkey wants strong into the EU, and in 2009 received the support of U.S. President Barack Obama.

* - Moving towards Turkish membership would be an important signal about the EU's commitment to this agenda and ensure that we continue to tie Turkey firmly in Europe, Obama said at the time.

But the unresolved situation in Cyprus, the treatment of Kurds and Turkey's lack of recognition of the Armenian genocide makes EU still sitting on the fence. Meanwhile, the EU has demanded that the military's political influence to weaken.

- The EU has been Erdogan's useful idiots, in that they have pushed for the military and the Constitutional Court should give up power. In this way Ergodan received a pretext for removing the power constraint they made, and the result has been that one man and his party have much more power, says Wigen.

He points out that Turkey lacks democratic control bodies as we know from countries such as Norway.

- Turkey has not a strong opposition that can keep the government in check, and this task has therefore accrued to the military, which has represented the secular forces, said Wigen.


With help of Google ...
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Hachris ..ive been saying this for a few years..it was all about weakening the military and taking over the judiciary..this has been accomplished..and nobody is strong enough to stand up to him..even the faithful and milder mannered Gül is treated like a lackey...
i think that if it comes to a fight for the Presidency and Gül ,is looking more popular in the polls he needs to watch his back.
SEDAT ERGÄ°N - Will President ErdoÄŸan instruct the governor?


Kipper restorer
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Just for balance, here is an alternative opinion, from the Guardian,

The rise of Recep Tayyip Erdogan

How the Turkish PM became a dominant force despite the suspicions of the military and secularists

When Recep Tayyip Erdogan became prime minister of Turkey in 2003, few would have wagered that he would become such a dominant political force.

Last month, Erdogan returned to a hero's welcome from thousands of supporters at Istanbul's Ataturk airport after storming out of a debate in Davos, Switzerland, over Israel's recent offensive in Gaza. His spat with the Israeli president, Shimon Peres, may have jeopardised Turkey's reputation as an honest broker between Israel and the Palestinians, but it went down well in Turkey ahead of next month's municipal elections.

Erdogan, a devout Muslim, enjoyed a reputation for being charismatic when he first entered politics in 1994. He became known for his integrity and as a can-do politician as mayor of Istanbul. Even his critics admit that he did a good job, making the city cleaner and greener – although secularists did not like his decision to ban alcohol in cafes.

He might not have become prime minister at all when his Justice and Development (AK) party swept to power in parliamentary elections in 2001. Because of a previous conviction, Erdogan was banned from holding any government post, but his party's parliamentary majority quickly changed that by allowing it to pass a constitutional amendment. Erdogan ran for office in a byelection and became head of the government.

The conviction stemmed from Erdogan's Islamist sympathies, which make him a figure of suspicion to the military and secular Turks. In 1998, Erdogan was convicted for inciting religious hatred after he publicly read an Islamic poem that included the lines: "The mosques are our barracks, the domes our helmets, the minarets our bayonets and the faithful our soldiers..."

In elections in 2007, Erdogan and his ruling party solidified their hold on power by winning 46.6% of the popular vote. The victory was seen as a vote of confidence in Erdogan's handling of the economy. Over the past six years, Erdogan and his party have pulled Turkey out of economic crisis and restored stability.

Growth has been booming, inflation has fallen sharply and foreign investment has poured in, although like every other economy Turkey has been hit by the global downturn. Erdogan accused the International Monetary Fund of setting unacceptable conditions after the suspension of negotiations over a proposed loan to help Turkey weather the storm.

Erdogan was noticeably modest in his victory speech after the 2007 election. Although he justifiably could have claimed that he had won a mandate from the voters, he shied away from any kind of triumphalism. He pledged instead to pursue a reform agenda with the goal of getting Turkey into the EU, and said he accepted the result with "great pride and maturity".

This indicates that Erdogan will play a cautious game so as not to antagonise Turkey's powerful generals, who see themselves as the guardians of Kemal Ataturk's secularist legacy and who have overthrown four governments since 1980 in that self-appointed role.

Sha Hoorsur

Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
I dont know about anyone else, but you have all certainly scared the willies out of me.
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Moolag the Guardian article is behind the times ..and their latest reports reflect a change in how they see things now...
that article was written after he returned from Davos and had shouted SHimon Peres down..the Turks greeted him with enthusiasm because he was macho ..in fact he was being macho and also antisemitic and he was responsible for stirring religious hatred against the Jewish community he accused Peres and İsrael of knowing how well to kill...ignoring the fact that thousands of Kurds could have said the same about his term in office..and some did but were never heard. His behaviour should haunt him as he also said that Muslims dont kill Muslims at the time he was defending the genocide in the Sudan

people have kept this party in power not because of the weakened Military nor because of the headscarf row but because of the economy ...if that worsens as it will..so will the AKPs voters..people follow the money ..voters are fickle if their personal finances suffer.

just a word about the headscarf controversy...the women that shout the loudest to get into university and wear a cloth on their heads are those least likely to use their education afterwards since in general they come from families where women dont work .for role models look at the wives of the party leaders all dolled up and can now attend official do' s..yet none are involved in any worthwhile work and all have degrees...ordinary women have always been free to wear the scarf..although within the constraints of the males in the family..which is food for a different debate

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