Lez Zetli

Bacon and eggs
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
I've nothing against subjects like "What did you cook tonight", after all we are a community and everyone has different interests. But has no-one noticed that Istanbul, Ankara and Bursa are burning? That peaceful marchers being gassed by the police on the pretext that "it is a security risk"? That the jandarama are being called in but they hold back in solidarity with the protestors and in disrespect of the police? That thousands are on the streets and thousands are on hunger strike protesting against the imprisonment without trial of hundreds of journalists and retired generals?

I find it worrying. At what point will I feel that enough is enough and pack my stuff and leave? Everyone relaxed about this?
 
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
I feel the same..its not so long ago that scorn was poured over any dubious views about the ruling party and secularism. do you remember how some people laughed about hidden agenda and how the government was termed mildly islamist
Atatürk was a man of vision he was right to get rid rid of the Mullahs but they are back again and stronger than ever
While there are people prepared to come out on the street and defy this governments stranglehold theres still hope.
i think the world is waking up to AKP aims but theres no easy way way back
 

northpole

The Penguin Rules
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
l always had this inkling an under current was lurking.That under current is the forward of siding with lslamic attitudes.lf the AKP didn't oppress the army,journalists,freedom of speech,and the students etc.They would have been out of power years ago.What is keeping them in power is by silencing the real truth about themselves and their sinister motives.
Remember when Erdogan said he wanted to be democratic.l think that was for the intention to exploit the Euro funds he is rewarded every year.Not very democratic way of carrying on.The truth is now coming out for what it is.
 
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Sha Hoorsur

Member
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
I am getting very worried about the way things are heading in Turkey, I am seriously considering selling up and perhaps renting for six months of the year. That way, if things deteriorate I can just up sticks and leave. My dream of complete retirement to Turkey looks as if it’s drifting away.
 

eldivenci

Member
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
I am scornful of your hysterical reaction to the current situation, Shirley. What is happening is nothing new, it has been going on for decades. You are witnessing the power of the state that has been in place for many years. All that has changed is who this power is being directed against.
The ruling party is strong because of the votes they receive. Opponents of the ruling party need to start assembling reasonable arguments to persuade people to vote in a different way. Exaggerating the power of the ruling party has the opposite effect.
Recent events are a disgrace, but they are not a reason to run away.
 

teosgirl

Member
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Lez,

You're having the knee-jerk reaction that I sometimes have after I watching the evening news on Turkish TV :)
It is worrying for sure, however I don't know, I'm slowly I'm coming to the realisation that there is too much strong opposition for RTE to actually implement his dream of an Islamic republic. I don't doubt that this is his ultimate goal, and he is certainly trying to strong arm all and any opposition, but recently I feel it just can't/won't happen.

My reasoning for this cautious change of heart is that Gul seems to be RTE's biggest opponent once again, and this is comforting to me. He could be preparing to run against RTE in the Presidential elections, and if he had the support of the CHP (as the better option) it could sway a lot of conservatives into voting for the more moderate man.
It's not the first time they have publicly disagreed either; remember when Gul vetoed a bill which RTE had pushed into parliament? OK, Gul later changed his mind, but these latest comments by Gul indicate that he's aware of the dictator-like behaviour by the PM and I'm hoping (maybe naively) that his recent fair and balanced comments regarding the celebration march towards Anitkabir by citizens is a clear indication that he won't tolerate such violent response in order to support one man's goal of achieving a 'more conservative population'.

RTE seems to be losing support at the moment, not gaining it.

I'm also aware that Gul and RTE have given the media decidedly different statements regarding the hunger strikers - with Gul urging them to halt their protest, and RTE denying they even exist.

Let's wait a big longer before hanging a for sale sign outside the front door.....

POLITICS - Double-head governing rift deepens


Charlotte
 
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Tch tch Eldivenci scornful..hysteria...strong words and yet the rest of your post seems to accept that things are not right.
Whats your real opinion
 

mollag

Kipper restorer
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
So what would be different back in the UK ?

Demonstations being stymied by the police?---nope, think kettling in London

Street rioting?----nope, we have loads of those in England

The Army losing soldiers in "wars"------nope, think Ulster, Bosnia, Kosovo, Iraq, Afghanistan.

Terrorist activity on the streets, -----nope, The Uk has had this for 40 years

Religious intolerence,-----------------nope , try Belfast or Derry or try being an obvious Muslim in England and racially targeted by the police, hasnt happened to me as a christian in Turkey

Hunger strikers, nope, i think it was invented in England, think Bobby Sands.

Imprisonment without trial, ----nope try Internment and POT act, more recent legislation is even more draconion.


In short, what is happening in Turkey is symptiomatic of most democracies in action, far from perfect but not the end of the world scenario that the rabid anti Erdogan faction would have you believe.
Personally i think he is past his sell by date but where is the viable opposition? Kılıçdaroğlu is still percieved as being an Army puppet in the pocket of the Turkish wealthy elite despite his recent religious awakening. The Turkish electorate made their choice, you dont like him! vote him out, its the democratic way.
 

Hilsjw

Member
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
I was in Taksim Sq. Instanbul two weeks ago and there was a big demo. going on re. animal cruelty. It was good to see so many young people concerned about this. I signed a petition but couldn't see any police. However, there were groups of 20 to 30 police dressed in riot gear with shields batons guns etc.in other parts of the city. They were just hanging around in side streets and not actually doing anything, so don't know what they were up to !
 

teosgirl

Member
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Mollag,

To be honest there is a big difference between the two countries.
The 'demonstration' on Republican Day was not actually a demonstration - it's an annual march to commemorate the birth of the republic, it has been labelled a demonstration in some media circles simply because RTE outlawed it.
If people want to march towards Anitkabir to honour Ataturk then why should the PM oppose it? As with the children's day celebrations, this is not stifling protesters - it's banning events and celebrations which recognise Ataturks great achievements.
There have been a great number of protests though, from taxes on alcohol, to the Ergenekon trial, to pet laws - I would say far greater than we've ever seen in the UK. Some you just don't hear about.

Nor does the UK have one of the highest number of students languishing in prison (some sentenced to more than 8 years) for peaceful protests for free education - how can we compare the legislation against terrorism in the UK and Turkey? They might both offer far-reaching powers but it's HOW these laws are implemented which show the purpose and blatant abuse of power in order to suppress opposition in Turkey.
Highest number of journalists in prison, with media outlets being threatened to tow the line or face the consequences.
Forced religious education of the minorities - we don't force anyone to attend Christian religious courses in the UK, however the Alevi community in Turkey are just one minority group who have had their right to avoid R.E lessons taken away by RTE's regime.

Terrorism on the street - you cannot compare the UK and Turkey's current position. The UK is not fighting a daily battle against home grown *and neighbouring* terrorists and losing soldiers (most of whom are fulfilling their compulsory national duties) on a weekly basis.

There are problems in the UK for sure - mostly of a different nature, but RTE is abusing his position to cultivate a conservative population which he admits is his goal.

The UK hasn't spent their biggest proportion of the budget on constructing new churches either.

Charlotte
 
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Mollag..theres no comparison
your use of the word Democracy is amusing..theres little democracy here now free speech has gone there's more wire tapping than than a woodpecker can tap and more outspoken critics of the government banged up ..how many critics of David Cameron are in prison how many young British students and kids under 15 are in prison..how many honour killings are on the increase with the police turning a blind eye and how many people are genuinely hungry and poverty stricken ..maybe not in Gumusluk but get out an about a bit

i have several relatives in the police here and if they are not toeing party lines they are out especially if they are working in İstanbul..if they are not on their knees on Fridays there's no promotion and further they are told when and where to pray how to cut their hair and so on. the Police are under the control of the Gülenists as İ am sure you are aware.
As a Christian you are in an insignificant minority..but if you started preaching the gospel or distributing Christian literature you may well get your throat cut...im sure you will remember the men in Malatya who were tortured and murdered for this in 2007 ..and even though the killers are known they still have not been convicted and theres no end in sight ..they are even trying to connect the killers into the Ergenekon farce unbelievable.

Religious intolerance is more than prevalent here..and İ'm sure you will remember the long running case of the Armenian Editor Hrant Dink who was murdered just for this and his views.
İf you were an Alevi in some places you would have your house marked as such on your door and maybe even torched

New Evidence Stalls Murder Trial in Malatya, Turkey
 

northpole

The Penguin Rules
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Ataturk worked so hard for what he achieved,only to be ruined by the AKP party that have strong ties with the lsamic fanatics that want to take over.l heard Erdogan is connected to the lslamic sunni's,one of the radical fanatical side of lslam.This will be a total disaster for Turkey that once had a secular constitution and a liberal society.Turkey economy was booming because islamic policies were not allowed to interfere with the authoritive side of the country.

The religious lslamic fanatics will ruin Turkey by taking it back to the days of how it was 50 years ago.Women will be forced to wear headscarfs in Turkey.And don't think non muslim women will not be effected by this,because they will.The under current has now surfaced and swimming towards lslamic running of the country.The Army should have moved in quickly when they had the chance to.Now what Erdogan is doing is oppressing all those that go against his plans and also those that exposes the sinister truth of siding with a lslamic government.

l have noticed how a promotion tourist scheme is to attract more of the muslim holiday makers around the Middle Eastern countries.This will suit Erdogans plans with no alcohol and a oppressive way of life which the westerners will not tollerate.All l know is,this is a great disaster for Turkey which l thought was siding with Europe's way of life
 
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Lez Zetli

Bacon and eggs
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
"It's the same in every country" is one of the most overused and harmful statements that I keep seeing in the forums. It's well-meaning, but it is blatantly untrue, it detracts from the seriousness of the issues and encourages people to think that nothing needs to be done. I'm sure that there were Greeks, Jews, Armenians, French and Italians living in Smyrna back in the early 20's who could be heard to say this :)
 

mollag

Kipper restorer
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
"It's the same in every country" is one of the most overused and harmful statements that I keep seeing in the forums. It's well-meaning, but it is blatantly untrue, it detracts from the seriousness of the issues and encourages people to think that nothing needs to be done. I'm sure that there were Greeks, Jews, Armenians, French and Italians living in Smyrna back in the early 20's who could be heard to say this :)

No it isnt, its a fact that needs emphasising when people bring their "problem countries" up as a special case, each country has its own individual problems, none are perfect, its your statement that is untrue, not the facts on the ground, all countries deal with their problems in their own way This is nothing at all to do with Smyrna, an Ataturk solution as i read it, or are you forecasting the same scenario is in the offing soon in Turkey.
Many on this forum run obvious regular anti AKP posts, good luck to them, they may deny there is democracy in Turkey but they would wouldnt they, the general World opinion differs. Can you put your hand on your heart and say the present Turkish opposition will improve matters? personally i think not, back to Junta rule most likely.
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
well I think its untrue to say everywhere has its own problems re religious factional fighting, bigotry etc. I have lived in Belfast all my life and ........oh right
 
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
No it isnt, its a fact that needs emphasising when people bring their "problem countries" up as a special case, each country has its own individual problems, none are perfect, its your statement that is untrue, not the facts on the ground, all countries deal with their problems in their own way This is nothing at all to do with Smyrna, an Ataturk solution as i read it, or are you forecasting the same scenario is in the offing soon in Turkey.
Many on this forum run obvious regular anti AKP posts, good luck to them, they may deny there is democracy in Turkey but they would wouldnt they, the general World opinion differs. Can you put your hand on your heart and say the present Turkish opposition will improve matters? personally i think not, back to Junta rule most likely.

the juntas here ..only not in uniform
the world is getting twitchy about rt..imagine the disgrace of pepper spray and water canon on Republic Day
this morning he says the guys on hunger strike are just doing it for show but some are starting to eat koyun kebab couldnt make it up could you.:48:
 

mollag

Kipper restorer
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
Shirley, this PM has, imho, past his sell by date, he appears pompous and arrogant, a huge parliamentary majority will do that for you, but let us not forget all promulgated laws must be passed by the democratically elected MP,s, thats as close as you will get to a democratic parliament and its a million miles away from unelected Generals running a country which is what a junta is.
Despite all the howling about unfair elections, Turkish elections pass the accepted international inspection tests for fairness and The PM has won a handy few of them.
You want rid of him? get an opposition that can convince a majority of Turks that he can do better, thats how Erdogan got into power.
 

eldivenci

Member
Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
All of these events need to be seen in context. For most of the last 30 years the wives of the PM and president and their supporters, fellow MPs etc were not allowed to attend the official celebrations such as Republic Day because they cover their heads. The PM and supporters saw this as a personal affront and undemocratic. Now the presence of those women at official events is seen as an affront to the Republic and Atatürk by kemalists. The CHP frequently boycott official events and organised their own commemorations. The government see this as an affront to the Republic and democracy. The government is now using the law to prevent alternative commemorations, insisting that everyone joins the official Republic Day events and commemorations of Atatürk.

The ruling party gained a lot of sympathy because most people felt that banning covered women from such events was unfair and prevented the development of an inclusive republic. Now most people feel that preventing alternative commemorations by force is also unfair, as noted by the editor of the Daily news MURAT YETKÄ°N - ErdoÄŸan shoots himself in the foot
 
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Turkey is burning but what did you have tonight?
the man is a megalomaniac..he certainly doesn't think hes past anything..just try and unseat him hes on a mission..
İts obvious i dont like him and this started when i began to see his attitude to women
i think he would wrap us up like the Taliban and keep us at home. look at his wife..Güls too..both university educated and never worked a day neither are they involved as role models for all Turkish women
i hope that Gül will pull him down..if it comes to a straight fight between them for the Presidency i believe the country would get behind Gül...which puts Gül in a very dangerous place.
its a good thing he didn't get the super vote he was after in the last election which meant he could have changed the constitution unilaterally now he has to cooperate with the other parties.
you also have to look are where the votes he did get came from...this country has been polarised by this government
 

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