carolk

R.I.P
Torture brothers.
I have been following this story for a few days in the papers and the similarity to the Bulger case. The latest article is here.

Torture brothers will 'be free at 18': Sadists who maimed two innocent boys to be given lifelong anonymity | Mail Online

Can children like this be rehabilitated or should they be charged as adults and serve out life sentences? This was the bit that made me wonder today from the Daily Mail.

Officials had hoped that the brothers' violent behaviour would improve when they were separated from each other.
But the pair have been instigating fights with other inmates and bullying them, a source told the Mail last night.
Their attacks prompted staff at each centre to remove the boys' privileges, including the use of a television and computer games, as punishment.
'They haven't changed a bit,' a source told the Mail. 'They're not humble or remorseful - they just see this as an opportunity to be bullies all over again, but with the luxury of nice meals and new TVs.'
Although huge amounts of money are poured into their rehabilitation, more than 78 per cent of children released from custody re-offend within 12 months


Also I wonder, when these children are given anonymity when released, how will we ever know if they re-offend?.
 
Torture brothers.
I wonder if one of the conditions of their anonymity is that they have no contact with their family for the rest of their life?
Their parents obviously are not able to be a good example to them in the future as they have had an influence on who they are at this point in their life.
It makes you wonder if the law should extend punishment to the parents for failing to supervise and guide their children..............they are minors,and parents should take some responsibility for their actions in my opinion
 

Tess

Member
Torture brothers.
Ghastly, sickening case Carol, horrendous what these two boys done to their victims, and victim is the word!! How on earth the kids who were subjected to this type of sadistic treatment will ever 'be the same again' beggers belief. How they will ever pick up the pieces and move on in life, how when they close their eyes at night the entire events would come rushing back to them. NO Nice meals and new TV's, computer games - Hmmm! some punishment that is!!! Anonymity - oh yes the perpetrators taken by the hand once again. Sadly, we will probably never know if they reoffend, they will be given a golden handshake to swan off to some foreign land to live gloriously anonymously at our expense.
I hope when these two sadistic bullies close their eyes at night, they never know what it is like to have a peaceful sleep, God forgive them for what they done, cos I sure Never would !!!!
 
Torture brothers.
Horrible I watched on This Morning yesterday the lady who found the 9 year old wandering around covered in blood and her son went to find the other 11 year old lad who was left for dead with only his t.shirt on. I would give anyone a second chance but in this case you can't these people whether children or adults are evil and that won't change.
 

carolk

R.I.P
Torture brothers.
I don't think anyone is born evil but, if they become 'evil' (or whatever word we attach) I am wondering if they can ever be rehabilitated?

I wonder because most serial killers start harming creatures/people at a young age. All were not dragged up as seems to be believed - Dahmer certainly wasn't - to name just one, his father has given many an open interview and his childhood was normal, as normal as most - divorce etc.

My question is really - Is it sometimes too late? do we just have to accept that by a certain age some children are 'lost' to society?
 

bobthenob

Non Active Member
Torture brothers.
The government is to blame for the way society behaves.They enforce policies to protect the criminal and punish the victim.How so stupid is that.By handing out generous benefits to the criminal mind will promote their activities and weaken a community to a point where the decent are left in fear and insecurity.

What needs to be done is to have a complete overhaul in the way we treat these wrong thinking minds.The parents that have encouraged these boys to turn into demons are the one’s that should be locked up in a severe disciplined boot camp and to teach them force ably the value of what life is and what can be gained out of life if treated with respect.These people have no respect for nothing except themselves.They must learn to get on in life is through hard work and determination to make a success on the grounds of being independent from leeching off others.To learn the value of money and how to save and spend it with respect.

They must go through a rigorous course on the issues on the importance of how ethics can be so rewarding towards the mind and body.Once they have passed all the examinations without any of the do gooders interfering and the corrupt E.U with their stupid policies of human rights then the possibilities of this ever happening again will be a lot less likely then these stupid idiotic brain dead twerps in power that protect the criminal minds.
This will be a common practice if they allow these policy makers get away with murder.lt is odvious the system has no commonsense and very little intelligence.Let the people run the country and oust out the evil that is instigating all the problems we see in society now.

These young minds can still be given a chance to reform if taught correctly right from the start.They need to learn disipline and strict hard work 5 days a week.Saturday will be their day off and then on Sunday is a lesson on religious issues[but taught correctly from a proper right thinking religious teacher]No polically correct religious issues should ever come into it,if it does then it will not work.

On no account should they watch the telly or the computer without supervision and also at a limited time.No computer games and no literature that shows violence.Keep their minds well away from evil images and teachings and replace them with images of kindness and beautiful senic images that instigates peace towards the people and the enviourment.

They also must be aware of what they have done during the time of the strict course,because later on they will realize on what they have done was wrong and apoligize with meaning from the heart and not from the mouth.

lf the above cannot reform and are still a threat to the normal right thinking society of people then they must start the regime all over again until they do,but this time is the last time and if they fail this time then the punishment should be served as a deterrant to rid of the evil that plagues our society with fear.

The government are the main instigaters,but the parents are the one's that has been influenced by these evil policies.l have always said the devil does take care of it's own kind,by serving the demons and encouraging others to become demons.The devil is the system that has instigated their own policies to destroy the very fabric of our once moral upright thinking society to replace it with policies to destroy the decent mind that strengthen a society.
 
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Gin&Tonic

Member
Torture brothers.
I grew up in a decent neighbourhood, people had good jobs, the children were well behaved, there was never a sign of trouble. One local family had 4 children, they all had a good education and 3 off them went on to University and all did very well. The parents were very respectable, their father was a local businessman and they had a perfect upbringing.

For whatever reason, one son was in trouble from a very young age, he is now in his late 50s and in Prison serving a very long sentence for extremely serious offences. He has spent most of his life in and out of Prison and each time he comes out the next crime is more serious. No one has ever been able to work out why he should be so different from his brothers and sister. Maybe some are born that way.
 
Torture brothers.
Or maybe you thought they all had a decent upbringing etc nobody knows what goes on behind closed doors. Something might have happened to this one lad to make him go off the rails away from home. Maybe some people are born bad but if you look at most the background etc there is always something that triggers it off and different people react to different things in different ways


I grew up in a decent neighbourhood, people had good jobs, the children were well behaved, there was never a sign of trouble. One local family had 4 children, they all had a good education and 3 off them went on to University and all did very well. The parents were very respectable, their father was a local businessman and they had a perfect upbringing.

For whatever reason, one son was in trouble from a very young age, he is now in his late 50s and in Prison serving a very long sentence for extremely serious offences. He has spent most of his life in and out of Prison and each time he comes out the next crime is more serious. No one has ever been able to work out why he should be so different from his brothers and sister. Maybe some are born that way.
 

jimskem

Member
Torture brothers.
On the day this sadistic and violent attack took place, the offenders were supposed to attend there local police station to answer questions regarding another attack on a boy of similar age.
I believe these two young boys may be even more depraved than the two who murdered James Bulger.
They forced the two victims to commit sex acts on each other, and filmed what was going on with the mobile phone they had stolen off one of their victims.
The eleven year old victim at one stage of the two hour ordeal begged, just leave me alone, let me die.
Both of the boys who carried out the the sustained, mindless violence had
been expelled from school quite some time ago.
Reports in the National press describe the boys as uncontrollable.
It does annoy me when i read they are also from a one parent family, their
alcoholic father left home years ago.
Iv'e no doubt that sons and daughters from one parent families, who live on
the same estate, will go on to Universtiy and further education.
 

Mushroom

Member
Torture brothers.
Both boys are products of the underclass which is now multiplying like rabbits. They only know how to stay in bed, claim benefits and breed. Crime pays, so they turn to it readily. Living on a daily diet of junk food watching violent dvd's and without parental supervision they are truly ferral. With ferral animals who become either a nuisance or a threat they are either neutered or destroyed !
 
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suzyq5

Member
Torture brothers.
Its so sad. I tend to lay the blame at the parents but then what kind of parenting did they have? I am the eldest of 8 children and each and everyone of us works. We knew right from wrong.
 

jimskem

Member
Torture brothers.
In this post my intention is to describe what i will call a Bigger Picture.
People who may recall a photograph taken during the miners strike of 25 years ago, may remember a miner wearing an imitation policeman's helmet.
His name is George [Geordie] Brearly. This man sadly passed away in 1997, aged 53. This photograph received National and worldwide publicity.
My reason for mentioning this is because he also lived in Edlington, the scene
of this horrific crime.
He was a coal miner, like his father and father-in-law.
I quote from the Guardian, Monday, March 9th 2009.
Norman Tebbit, who was Trade Secretary at the time of the strike, stated
Many of these mining communities were completely devastated, with people out of work turning to drugs and no real mans work because all of the jobs had gone.There is no doubt that this led to a breakdown in the communities with families breaking up and youths going out of control. The scale of the closures went to far. The damage done to those communities was enormous
as a result of the strike. Unquote.
I appreciate the miners strike was mentioned earlier this year, but i began my
post refering to the Bigger Picture. The first line of Mushroom's post has it
in a nutshell.
However, i believe any Country should be judged on the way it treats there
prisoners, regardless of age. I believe also it would be dangerous for these
two boys to ever be released.
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
Torture brothers.
I heard a couple of experts stating pretty much what jimskem said this morning on tv, ironically if you watch the recent crime "reallity programs" they tend to be in areas where there were previously mining or steel working communities which have largely turned into benefits dependant towns and villages, sadly we now have 3rd generation claimants, I for one could name half a dozen to a dozen who falsely claim incapacity etc. Most of the bad behaviour comes from these families children.
and I dont live in a mining or steelwork community.
I believe that the parents should be jailed as well as they are complicit in the childrens behaviour.

martin
 

Akasya

Postless Pointer
Torture brothers.
sadly folks the giveaway is " The Daily Mail " the use of quotes, phrases such as " likely to " and " Lawyers say ". Apart from the photo's all else is speculation. It is still six years away, the Daily Mail will run this story again and again, always linking them with the emotive tags of " Bulger " , " Bell " etc. The only truthfull statement you can rely on in this travesty of journalism is the price.

Steve.
 

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