geordie_nev

Member
The Last Ottoman Dies
There is still a few Osmanls’ living around Europe. Many went to France after the fall of the Ottoman Empire and later on to England during World War II.

There was a programme on Turkish TV a few years back featuring the old Ottoman families that still live in England and France, some still talk about having rights to the oils in Northern Iraq which were taken from them by the British after the First World War. The video also features the last Caliph who died in Paris during WWII and was later buried in Medina.

Osmanoglunun Surgunu BL- III

There was a land dispute involving our village (Hisaronu Koyu) and three neighbouring villages on the Bozburun Peninsula dating back to the last Sultan, a few years ago the claim was thrown out by the Supreme court in Turkey, ending the last claim for land from the Ottoman period. Although I think the land between the villages is still being disputed.
 
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gren

Member
The Last Ottoman Dies
Please excuse the obvious gaping hole in my knowledge, but when you say "Ottomans" do you mean a 'royal' family from the old Turkish empire?

And what EXACTLY were Sultans?
- Were they part of a religeous order?
- Were they part of the military?
- Were they part of a family with all the above?
 

Roly

Member
The Last Ottoman Dies
Would suggest you use your PC to do a bit of reading. Plently of information on the internet about the Ottomans and The Ottoman Empire..try this for a start :

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ottoman_Empire

Roly
 

geordie_nev

Member
The Last Ottoman Dies
In some ways its difficult to condense the history of the Ottomans because it spans a 600 year period during which the world changed enormously.

They started off as a small shamanistic Turkish tribe of warriors, headed by Osman, living in central Anatolia and ended up as an imperial dynasty and one of the biggest and fastest growing empires in world history. The Empire also claimed the caliphate authority making it the leader and defender of the Islamic world.

Their success was largely put down to their tolerant approach to other regions allowing Muslims, Christian and Jews to have their own laws and live side by side. This of course ultimately became their down fall when ethnic unrest and nationalism swept through Europe during the run up to the First World War.

As they were the bridge between the East and West for over 500 years, many modern day scholars are now studying how they overcame cultural differences to maintain a relatively peaceful multicultural society.

I wish I knew more about them. Recently I’ve been trying to read about the [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanzimat"]Tanzimat [/ame] reform period of the 19th century as it is said to have been the foundation of many of Ataturk’s reforms. During the reforms Christians, Jews and Muslim were all given equal status and the Fez was introduced in order to make everyone wear the same head gear.

There was quite a nice tribute to Ertugrul Osman on Jenny White’s blog today.
I like the story of how he queued up as part of a tour group of see his old palace where he grow up as a child and how he refused to take a passport. How sad it is that his death was given little or no coverage in the Turkish press.

Kamil Pasha Death of The Last Ottoman
 
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alison09400

Moderator
The Last Ottoman Dies
The Ottoman Empire fascinates me. I'm currently reading a book, each chapter dedicated to every Sultan.
Geordie Nev, I watched the evening news on ATV tonight and you're correct there was no mention of Ertugrul Osman's death. Sad really when Turkey can't remember it's ancestors.
 

alison09400

Moderator
The Last Ottoman Dies
Ertugrul Osman's funeral service was held yesterday at Sultanahmet Camii (Blue Mosque) after special permission was granted. A funeral has not been held at this mosque for many years.

He was then buried next to his grandfather Sultan Abdulhamit. Prayers (Mevlit) were then said yesterday evening in the garden of his birthplace Yildiz Saray (Star Palace).

People from the turkish government like the Prime Minister's helper, Government Minister, Domestic Minister and Cultural &Tourism Minister attended the funeral.

His cousin, Bulent Osmanoglu was at the funeral wearing cuffllinks which had his grandfather's picture on them.


Posta Gazetesi.NET, Posta gazete, Trkiye'nin En ok Okunan İnternet Gazetesi
 

geordie_nev

Member
The Last Ottoman Dies
Good to see he wasn’t totally forgotten.

What book are you reading Alison? Is it the one by Lord Kinross, I was thinking of buying that one.

What does caliphate authority mean?
Who had this "authority" before them then....or was it their invention?

I’m sure there’re other members that know the history of Islam a lot better then me but the caliph was the appointed successor to the Prophet Muhammad and is regarded as the supreme Authority of Islam.

Although Muhammad is regarded as the last Prophet a political successor had to be appointed, the decision as to who to appoint has caused and deep and bitter rifted in Islam ever since. Sunni Muslim's believe the successor should have been appointed by senior members of the community and Shia Muslims believe that his successor should have been from his family, his cousin Ali.

The first four appointed caliphs are called the “rightly guided” caliphs as their appointments were made by senior members of the community of medina.

The Ottomans were very highly regarded within the Islamic world after the conquest of the Byzantium capitol Constantinople (Istanbul) as it was the centre of Christianity and I think was the centre of the world at the time. Although it wasn’t until the Ottomans expand into the Middle East that they were given to Caliphate. It’s also interesting that many Christians fought along side Muslims during the conquest of Byzantium apparently.

The Caliphate was abolished by Ataturk when the republic was formed.

It’s said that at the end of the Ottoman Empire, due to pressure largely from the Christian population who were influenced by Europe, they helped create the beginnings of a secular state giving senior government positions to Christian and Jewish officials and creating modern legal systems while trying to keep to the principles within the “Constitution of Medina” (The first constitution of the Islam set out by Muhammad).

A lot of that goes beyond my understand of Islam and the Ottomans but there’s a great Turkish journalist / historian called [ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mustafa_Akyol"]Mustafa Akyol [/ame] who is excellent at explaining Ottoman history its impact on Islam and modern day Turkey. Look him up on youtube if you’re interested.

There is also a book called "The First Muslims: History and Memory" by Asma Afsaruddin which is said to explain the origins of Islam and how it has developed over the years. I haven't read it but it is highly acclaimed.

[ame=http://www.amazon.co.uk/First-Muslims-History-Memory/dp/1851684972/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1254051109&sr=1-1]Amazon.com: The First Muslims: History and Memory (9781851684977): Asma Afsaruddin: Books[/ame]
 
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alison09400

Moderator
The Last Ottoman Dies
I'm reading "Osmanlı Tarihi" by Atilla Sahiner.

Ertugrul's father Sultan VI. (Mehmet) Vahdeddin is the only Sultan of the Ottoman Empire who isn't buried in Turkey. His grave is in the Sultan Selim Mosque in Syria.
 

geordie_nev

Member
The Last Ottoman Dies
1st of a three part series on the Ottomans is starting on bbc 2 tonight at 9 o'clock.

Filmed on location in Turkey, the Balkans, Greece and the Middle East, The Ottomans: Europe’s Muslim Emperors examines the many sides of the dynasty of Sultans including the changing role of religion, its economic ambitions, social organisation and its relationship with non-Muslims.

BBC - Media Centre - Programme Information - The Ottomans: Europe's Muslim Emperors
 

Carolyn

Member
The Last Ottoman Dies
Thanks for that Geordie Nev. I'll try and watch that. Either tonight live or tomorrow on catch up.

I've always been fascinated by the Osmanlis and a couple of visits to Istanbul have made me even more so.
 

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