Tess

Member
The Government in Turkey
Hi Celtic, I do not wish to sound disrespectful to the many wonderful Turkish people. But -
In light of the current economic climate and the many cases of people being ripped off by builders in regard to property buying, non receipt of Tapus and many many more horror stories emerging, non payment of bills by builders which leaves the apartment owners in a very vulnerable position, taking loans etc on existing apts which have been sold to people and the persons not being aware of it. People actually losing their homes and many many more problems.
May I ask is there someone in Government who tackles the incidences of unscrupulous builders who have deliberately set out to target unsuspecting buyers, is there someone who regulates this or is the whole property buying saga in Turkey something which happened so quickly and so fast that no 100% safeguard was in place with respect to foreign buyers.
I feel the credit crunch and recession is starting to be very evident now worldwide and I cannot help but think more and more incidences will emerge and many many people will find themselves at the losing end of many purchases.
In any country any wrongdoing causes unrest, it gives places and people bad press and I just would like to know do you think people in power are aware of this and I wonder if anything is being done behind the scenes to address this horrible issue.
I dearly love Turkey, I love the people (well most of them) but due to various things going on personally in my Turkish Life I find myself wondering if I done the right thing.
I'm afraid I am not ready to divulge my problems and they are hopefully very much under control but wonder constantly how much control there can be.
I mean no disrespect to the honest hardworking majority of Turkish people but wonder if and when all the "underhand" goings on will stop or will we always be at their mercy!!!
I hope all or some of this will be understandable and it is difficult to express myself with exact clarity without going into specifics!
Thanking you in anticipation of an answer Celtic!

I probably should have added Celtic, I do not think in all cases it was a deliberate move by builders to be deceitful but in many cases I think it was a case of 'property selling' and 'property buying' was unprecedented and many were not capable of managing the high volume of sales and after care and were guilty of mismanagement and the unfamiliarity of vast sums of money changing hands, I feel many lived the high life and now the sad state of affairs in the world and the property buying slowing down left them with a situation of having no funds left, unfortunately that is the case with many but sadly some did set out to deceive.
 
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PASH

Member
The Government in Turkey
Sharon, you have expressed how many of us feel, there must surely be someone in the Turkish government who has the balls to push these problems to the fore and try and do something about them!
 

carolk

R.I.P
The Government in Turkey
A heartfelt post Sharon, that so many will agree with and would like the answer to!
 

juco

Member
The Government in Turkey
In addition to what Tess has written many owners who have been ripped off have been threatened with voilence when they try to challenge them or decide to take them through the legal process, the police do nothing when any of this is reported to them which again just adds to the feeling of corruption within the country.

I could mention several cases where this has happened but that is up to the individuals to highlight their own case.
 
The Government in Turkey
What Tess has highlighted is the reason so many people are nervous about taking the plunge, I am, why so many people go back to the UK in despair, why unscrupulous Turks can see us as cash cows and take the mickey and very probably one of the reasons why Turkey will struggle in it's aims for EU membership...
The beauty of the country and it's many wonderful people is often overshadowed by the behaviour of the corrupt few who try to fleece foreigners, and this applies to the everyday treatment of tourists too!
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
The Government in Turkey
Never mind Celtic not understanding your post Tess, I don't !! :9:

I just want to say that I think it's unfair to Celtic as this appears to be a post getting things off your chest without directing a specific legal question to him.

I'm not trying to be awkward or anything - have a rant anytime (I'll willingly join in) - I just feel it's a bit unfair expecting him to respond.....

C
 

Tess

Member
The Government in Turkey
Lucky then Ceemac you are not the Legal Eagle and I will thank you to let Celtic be the judge of that and how dare you accuse me of getting things off my chest!! Is this not what this forum is about to share.
You obviously have had a happy experience and whilst I did not specifically highlight my exact case I do have my reasons for not highlighting it in detail!
There may not be a specific question to Celtic, but! it is issues which are ongoing and I did ask if there was a government body which would cover the antics of unscrupulous builders.
Ceemac, I am of the opinion you are in fact being awkward and if Celtic chooses not to answer because of "my getting things of my chest" so be it and I am sure he will be delighted he has someone on the forum like you to be his minder!!!

It is irrelevant to me Ceemac whether you understand my post or not, as believe it or not it was not directed at you!!! I am by nature not a rude person and generally am proactive rather than reactive, however I think you have done this to provoke reaction.
No need to reply Ceemac as I will not be entering into any further correspondance with you!!!
 
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ceemac

Shake It Baby...
The Government in Turkey
I apologise if I've offended you. That was not my intention :438qr:



C
 
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jewel

Member
The Government in Turkey
Hi Ceemac, I think Sharon like many many other people is asking Celtic who is legally responsible for policing the property market in Turkey and makeing sure that any wrong doing is accounted for and punished and what if ANY procedures are in place to safeguard the unsuspecting property buyer from being fleeced time and time again with little or no redress.Unless the powers that be are totally blinkered they must be aware of literally hundreds of cases,and untill the Goverment acts and means business then these unscrupulous builders will continue to get away with murder.If the powers that be can get us to panic over getting our Kat Mulkiyeti box ticked then I am sure they can get their own house in order and start to weed out the corupt and unscupulous builders in Turkey.However I think that Celtic would agree that the Law is seriously lacking in this field and drastic action needs to be taken.Maybe now I am ranting but I have been lucky with my purchase in 2003 however I am saddened by how many people have had their dreams and in some cases lifes destroyed, my heart goes out to you all . Julie x
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
The Government in Turkey
I understand that Jewel and I apologised to Tess as she may have problems that I know nothing about, so I was insensitive.

I didn't have a hassle free purchase myself and was at the end of my tether a few times - you will find posts of mine on here getting 'stuck into' the Turkish property system.

Many things are lacking in Turkey with regards to this sector and the authorities appear reluctant to do anything to help the foreign buyer.

C
 

bobthenob

Non Active Member
The Government in Turkey
What l find disturbing is how long this has been going on without any signs of plugging the loophole of corruption.
They can easily alter the laws and rules overnight to safeguard the investors buying in Turkey,but l do get this very suspicious feeling of it being a grey area,where the intention is to make easy money from outsiders for the economy.
l also think it will get worse before it gets better,because of the state of the global finances.The businesses will only look at it as a way of departing you of money quickly,without thinking of building up a reputation that will help them in the future in strengthening their business.
Everywhere l go and who l speak to,seems to be a majority of people with ongoing problems buying in Turkey.lt is just a minority that has had a hassle free experience[and l do wish them well]l find this so sad for the investors,because of their future plans have been dashed,by minds with thoughts of selfishness and greed.This behaviour must be nipped in the bud now,before it is to late for Turkey receiving a bad reputation in buying here.
Once the non-corrupt regulative boards are in place and the foreigner's can see the progress happening in the changing of the rules and laws in favour for the buyer for protection and guidance.Then the reputation will become stronger,which means the foreigner's will come back in droves
 
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panther

Member
The Government in Turkey
The government will be quite aware of what is going on. They are not doing anything to safeguard the investor (foreigner). I tend to think "do they really want us buying in Turkey." Maybe like a lot of others, only after our money. I have come to this conclusion after seeing so many people having tremendous problems, some sad to say lost everything to this wide open "fraudualent system."
 

Gin&Tonic

Member
The Government in Turkey
I agree with what's been said and really hope something can be done to stop this, I've had a problem myself, in fact I dont know many people who havent. One thing that does bother me is that hardly any Emlaks seem to know how to run a business, they have a "live for today" attitude towards money and spend it as soon as they get it and are the cause of a lot of the problems.
 

Guz1

Member
The Government in Turkey
Some fair points from Ceemac and Crash Tester. Celtic's contributions to the forum are proving to be invaluable. We need to be careful not to put him in a position where he could be deemed to be moving away from giving legal advice and into the area of criticising or tacitly agreeing with criticism of the Turkish legislators.

I would appreciate it very much if Celtic could answer the actual question contained in Tess's original post. The question itself was straightforward enough. Here it is again:

May I ask is there someone in Government who tackles the incidences of unscrupulous builders who have deliberately set out to target unsuspecting buyers, is there someone who regulates this or is the whole property buying saga in Turkey something which happened so quickly and so fast that no 100% safeguard was in place with respect to foreign buyers
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
The Government in Turkey
That's the point I was trying to make Crashtester but I wasn't very eloquent about it.

Celtic has been very generous in offering his help and will not want to be on the receiving end of anyone's frustrations - and I've been there - you just want to shout and rant and rave because it's so damned trying at times.

I think Tess's response to me was OTT but I realise I may have been ignorant as to what she has been experiencing, and I apologised immediately.

I think if something is posted on the open forum then any member is entitled to give an opinion - that's how it works.

Perhaps a private message would be a better way if there were matters that couldn't be posted publicly?

The forum has a gem in Celtic and we don't want to lose him.

C
 

jewel

Member
The Government in Turkey
Hi Ceemac, I take on board everything you say and commend you for your sincere apology to Sharon which I am sure she will accept.I think we are all on the same side and wish that there were clear and workable guidelines for some sort of legal redress or code which protects ALL buyers of Turkish property.I also wish to thank Celtic who totally free of charge and in his own(busy time) takes the opportunity to try and help or give usefull unbiased information,never would I criticise any genuine person who wishes to help nor do I hold Celtic in anyway responsble for the mess that the Turkish property market is in.I like Sharon thought maybe he could lead us in the right direction and give pointers as to which Goverment body these problems should be addressed to.Maybe it also happens to Turkish people and we are just not aware of it,in which case we as foreigners are not being singled out and it is a sweeping scandal which affects all. Lets hope that things don't get worse and something positive can happen before it is too late. Julie x
 

Tess

Member
The Government in Turkey
That's the point I was trying to make Crashtester but I wasn't very eloquent about it.

Celtic has been very generous in offering his help and will not want to be on the receiving end of anyone's frustrations - and I've been there - you just want to shout and rant and rave because it's so damned trying at times.

I think Tess's response to me was OTT but I realise I may have been ignorant as to what she has been experiencing, and I apologised immediately.

I think if something is posted on the open forum then any member is entitled to give an opinion - that's how it works.

Perhaps a private message would be a better way if there were matters that couldn't be posted publicly?

The forum has a gem in Celtic and we don't want to lose him.

C

Just to clarify several points, I am neither frustrated or have I ever been regarded as over the top, generally my friends consider me to be level headed and totally honest. For that I make no apologies.

However, I take on board everything that has been said and I thank you for your opinions.

To Celtic - sincere apologies to you, I do appreciate your time and effort and for that you should be applauded, I thank you most sincerely for the invaluable input you are giving this forum and I hope it does reap some well deserved revenue for you in your legal capacity.
My question was not random, it is something which is ongoing and causing sincere heartache to many.
At no time would I ever dream of insulting the Turkish Govt or the lovely turkish people and in no way would I ever criticise your country, please do not take my questions out of context.
When posting my questions I did not expect anything nor would I expect you to say anything derogatory about your country.
If you are unable to answer or feel it wise not to, so be it and I will think none the less of you.
I did think when posting it was not a random subject and I did give it lots of consideration.
Finally thank you for being on the forum and I sincerely trust I have not said or done anything to compromise you continuing to be a friend to many on here.


Ceemac - your gracious apology is sincerely accepted and I thank you for it.
 

carolk

R.I.P
The Government in Turkey
I found Sharon's post easy enough to read and understand her question. I think it is a question may would like the answer to - who do we go to in these circumstances? Celtic can decide to answer any questions for himself, he seems a very genuine person who said, he would like to help. There is no point having to walk on egg shells!!
 

celtic

Member
The Government in Turkey
Sharon(and all dear foreigners complaining about the deceits of the builders and the breakdowns in Turkish system), you are all right at expressing the troubles which are come across by the foreign nationals. I, as a Turk, am not willing to defend any of those swindlers and their attitudes, but wishing God to damn all ! It's a grim truth that there are opportunist swindlers who consider tourists as unfailing resources of money as doing such terrible things and disgracing the reputation of the whole country.

What must be done by the foreigners in this view of circumstance is being careful and finding someone trusted to do business. Please don't misunderstand me but I need to criticize some foreigners here for the opportunities they give to those infamous swindlers with their nummamorous behaviours. I've repeated this advice for -may be- a thousand of times in every environment where I could talk to tourists, get a professional legal help from a recommended and trusted lawyer in every stage of your purchasing process from signing the contract to the transfer of the ownership in the registration office. Unfortunately, most foreigners -I've met- here in Turkey ignored my advice as if I'm trying to 'hunt' clients although I've never offered my name to anyone for giving professional legal support even for once. Most foreigners ,unfortunately, want to get the best service for free -which is totally out of logic- due to their nummamorous attitudes and this cause them to encounter such problems.

Foreigners are not particularly relevant in my this message, anyone in Turkey -including the indigenous ones- who wants to buy or sell a property must take the legal consultancy and attorneyship service from a lawyer as well. However, the money lover attitudes I've stated above are observed on Turkish nationals as well, may be even more than the foreigners. My neighbour got in a negotiation of buying an estate 4 years ago from a contractor without taking any legal support -despite all my insistence-, signed the contract and realized that he got deceived last year as he could neither receive the tapu, nor contact that contractor despite the whole charge he payed off a couples of years ago. There's only a rough construction right now which is not even 30% completed and a big amount of a money that was already payed for -supposedly- having an apartment to the swindler contractor.

I apologize to everyone if I've rambled the topic but what I'm actually trying to highlight is that everyone can be deceived in Turkey under the current economical conditions, regardless to be foreigner or indigenous. What has to be done by a buyer not to fall in these traps is making good contracts from notaries by the help of the trusted lawyers with reputable contractors who are known as to adhere their promises. This may be a little more expensive than signing the contract with hand without taking any legal and inquiry services, but absolutely way more healthy with less head ache.
 
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Tess

Member
The Government in Turkey
Thank you Celtic for taking the time to answer my post, your candour is appreciated.
 

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