bobthenob

Non Active Member
The Causes of Suffering
Have you ever thought why there is so much suffering all around us and no matter how hard you try it just seems to escalate even further,where you have convinced yourself there is no light at the end of the tunnel.And every time something bad happens,God is always blamed for the atrocities in the world.But did you think of the real reasons behind why all this suffering is happening and how it came about.

“OK”,here goes.Lets just take a place anywhere in the world filled with people that are very content with their lives and the environment around that gives them what they want.They are not greedy selfish people,nor do they think they are better then the other person.They think as equal terms with each other and always show respect in the neighbourhood.There is no crime,hardly any severe death related illnesses at a young age and they have a glow of satisfaction being with nature,because they class nature as there home and must be taken care of,by using commonsense.They do not suffer from fear,stress,depression,suicidal thoughts,anxiety attacks etc.This country can be reality,if we allow it to happen.

The suffering was from self infliction,caused by deception from another outsider,when another country stuck it’s nose in to persuade the people they can have a far better luxurious life then the one they have already.Lets just say this person is a hard selling salesman to manipulate the local people’s mind to waver in the salesman favour.These people knew what they had was tranquil and with the mental ability to be in harmony with their surroundings.

But,they kept on listening to this salesman and took it in by what he was saying.He said you could govern this country yourself with our help and we will pour money into your country to build the infrastructure you need to live comfortable.These people were brainwashed into thinking as mindless robots for the sake of the salesman's selfish gains.

They have made a terrible mistake by becoming dependent now with this other country and have now lost the way,by once being in harmony with the villages they built over the thousands of years with nature as their true friend.They now abandoned the laws of nature that help them to be in harmony with each other and with nature.But they still don’t know what they did at that time until later.

The day came now for the country to change to compete with the other economies around the world.The money poured in fast to build the infrastructure for the people to live in comfort.Tall building erected quickly to create a city with the intention to breed money and materialistic wealth.Most now drive cars and live in decent housing with a comfortable weekly wage that buys them the materials they want to sustain a life of luxury.There were nights out most of the week,where they just let themselves go and let the alcohol flow freely without any thought of what their doing to themselves and others around them.

The whole country has now been turned into a society of mindless selfish desires,which is plunging the country into destruction and ruin.As the years progressed,so did the acceleration of the degeneration of morals that kept the communities bonded together.The people loved the pursuit of money and wanted more to feed their lifestyle.But the love for material gains has blinded the people into thinking wrongly and how they have now distance themselves from the mental well being they had before all this.

What now followed was a high suicide rate,because of their lifestyle involved toxins to alter the brains chemistry.Prostitution was increasing and immoral sexual behavior also contributed to a promotion of diseases in the country.Murders,confidence tricksters,divorces,mental ailments,no spiritual well being,liars,wars,have all been flourishing at a fast rate now,because they have lost what was the most vital ingredient in life.They lost the true love for each other that brings them together as one

They had a wisdom of knowing how to bond with nature and themselves,which created a peace.They also had the independent to govern themselves,which worked perfectly.Because man has interfered with this country that was at peace and had a respect for the animals and nature.lt has now turned into a country suffering from self inflicted mental and physical ailments that could’ve been avoided in the first place,if they ignored that salesman.

Man is the main instigator of all the suffering and is responsible of all the destruction around the world,due to selfish reasons.Man wants to ignore the laws of nature if money is concerned and self govern themselves to gain a power to oppress.this results in policies of have and have nots,which triggers wars,famine and corruption.

This country l used as an example was formally known as Formosa before WW 11,and after the war was changed to Twaiwan.

Man has misused his freewill.By wrongly thinking he could be successful in governing himself.He has stepped outside the boundaries of reason and has entered the inner boundaries of self destruction.
Now it is up to the people of that country to look back and see what is more important to them.Ethics are so important to the community in promoting a peace with each other and with nature.Once you have the true ethics in place then you also have the true wisdom in place to value the art of using the money correctly in the first place and to have just what you need to sustain a mental wealth and also to promote a wealth of knowledge to secure a peace that man has never accomplished ever since he ruled over the earth.
 
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Saoirse

Moderator
The Causes of Suffering
Dont talk to me about excruciating suffering!

We lost the league to Rangers last season. Wasnt your gods fault It was Strachans!
 

ukizook

Member
The Causes of Suffering
Have you ever thought why there is so much suffering all around us and no matter how hard you try it just seems to escalate even further,where you have convinced yourself there is no light at the end of the tunnel.And every time something bad happens,God is always blamed for the atrocities in the world.But did you think of the real reasons behind why all this suffering is happening and how it came about.

Yes Bob, I've often wondered why Malaria, sleeping sickness, TB, measels, Typhoyd, flu, and even common colds have come about. I then think of Famine, floods, earthquakes, tsunami etc. Then onto Cancer, Mental and physical illness, deformaties, Arthritis, etc etc.

I can't really attribute any of these thing to be "Man made" so I just put it down to nature and the cruelty it can bring. If however I believed that an entity [God for example] could be responsible for all this suffering, I would be quite cross with it.
 

bobthenob

Non Active Member
The Causes of Suffering
"ok"!,Ukizook,lets put it another way.You know the misery bubonic plague brought to the European countries,and the flu epidemic in the 1920's and also the sexually transmitted diseases of the twentieth century etc,these were all caused by man interfering with the laws of nature.

The rat boarded the boats from China and left the boats once it moored up in the European harbours.l believe the European flea that infested the rat had something to do with the black death,because of certian changes to the fleas chemistry while feeding off this foriegn rat has been altered in a way to create this lethal disease.So it was mans making that caused this.
Look at the many millions of other suffering in the world and you will see the real culprit is man,not God as many would believe.
 

Martyn

Member
The Causes of Suffering
I don't think people do think God is the cause Bob. People say if there is a god why doesn't he prevent it. I don't, as a non believer it's man's doing no-one elses but also I don't spend this life worrying about what may or may not happen to me when I'm gone. I think if people did likewise they would enjoy this life more.
 

bobthenob

Non Active Member
The Causes of Suffering
I think you are wrong there Martyn,because why do people always blame God when tragedy strikes.Man rebelled against a law that had it all.Health and wisdom.But decided to go it alone by becoming independent from the laws that gave him peace.This was the start of all the woes and suffering,because man decided to ignore what was right and sided with a selfish policy to self govern.

Since man decided to go it alone,he needed to be tested and see if he can rightfully govern himself in peace.The result is he has miserably failed on all acounts and has proved man can never govern himself,which resulted in policies of peace have gone from bad to worse.Many kinds of policies have been tried over the thousands of years to combat crime,conflicts,diseases,famine,and religious wars etc and all has failed,because their policies are always wrong.A demonic mind will result in complete and utter failure in bringing harmony to the world.

I also get on with my life,because you really cannot fight system that doesn’t want to see reason when they are influenced by selfishness and greed.There is nothing wrong with having views to what one thinks is the cause of the suffering.The problem lays when that person is so wrapped up and insence with the woes around the globe it can make you ill.
 

carolk

R.I.P
The Causes of Suffering
Bob, if you want to go back to the beginning with things like that to me its rather silly! God if there is one, created Adam and Eve they, according to you should have lived in bliss. They in fact stole an apple (or some other fruit) so, in fact he created thieves or flawed human beings!! If he exists and can do all this he should have made two perfect people but no, he created ( unfathomable rubric's cube people) for his own pleasure.

I also cant agree with the rats things in your terms, yes, man made the boats to sail from one country to another but, if they hadn't then (a/the) plague would have stayed in that country which would now no longer exist!
 

ukizook

Member
The Causes of Suffering
"ok"!,Ukizook,lets put it another way.You know the misery bubonic plague brought to the European countries,and the flu epidemic in the 1920's and also the sexually transmitted diseases of the twentieth century etc,these were all caused by man interfering with the laws of nature.

The rat boarded the boats from China and left the boats once it moored up in the European harbours.l believe the European flea that infested the rat had something to do with the black death,because of certian changes to the fleas chemistry while feeding off this foriegn rat has been altered in a way to create this lethal disease.So it was mans making that caused this.
Look at the many millions of other suffering in the world and you will see the real culprit is man,not God as many would believe.

Sorry Bob, good try but no coconut Im afraid. Yes the Bubonic plague did come from China [or at least it was first recorded there] it wasn't "Man" that created it, nor certain changes to the fleas chemistry, it was already in existence before "Man" brought it to Europe. It was a world wide plague that spread over land as well as the sea and saying Man was the cause of this is just naive and totally wrong.

You mention Flu, another man made thing...............I think not? As I said earlier, If I believed in an entity like God then I would put most of the blame for most of the things at he's front door, but I don't believe so I'll just put it down to nature [ like all the other things you chose to ignore ] because you couldn't link/blame Man for the suffering caused by them.
 
The Causes of Suffering
Bob, if you want to go back to the beginning with things like that to me its rather silly! God if there is one, created Adam and Eve they, according to you should have lived in bliss. They in fact stole an apple (or some other fruit) so, in fact he created thieves or flawed human beings!! If he exists and can do all this he should have made two perfect people but no, he created ( unfathomable rubric's cube people) for his own pleasure.
Carol Carol..youve got it wrong...it was the woman ..who was made from the mans rib...that tempted the man to eat the apple which gave him knowledge of wickedness....and we still get the blame when things go wrong.
no wonder men are bilious..missing a spare rib..hah
 

carolk

R.I.P
The Causes of Suffering
Carol Carol..youve got it wrong...it was the woman ..who was made from the mans rib...that tempted the man to eat the apple which gave him knowledge of wickedness....and we still get the blame when things go wrong.
no wonder men are bilious..missing a spare rib..hah

Thank you Shirl lol, made from a defective rib eh!! Even sillier then!! :p
 

bobthenob

Non Active Member
The Causes of Suffering
lt wasn't an apple,it was the fruit of the tree.
There are so many comments here are so wrong and distorted.lt will take up most of my time to answer all these comments,which l think is best to leave.

Ukizook,l mentioned about how man has interfered with the laws of nature.l still say there was a jump in some sort of disease that thrived better in the climate of the European countries then it did in the far east.But interfering with the laws of nature always results in castrotrophic circumstances.

Carol.l do think there is some evidence in the use of a rib being taken out of Adam to make Eve out of his DNA material.Have you noticed how man has one less rib,then a woman.
Look at it this way,if you bake a loaf of bread in a tin with a dent in it,all the other loaves will have an indentation for the entire use of that tin.
The same as a human that has been bred from the beginning leaving the mark as one less rib right up to the modern times.
What are your views on that one
 
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The Causes of Suffering
By the way Bob, man cannot alter or in anyway interfere with the laws of nature, they are fixed.
Man can of course alter HIS version of the laws of nature. One year the sun goes 'round the world and a year or so later the world goes 'round the sun, but that has not changed the actual "laws", man has just learned the truth of the law.
AIDS is entirely in accordance with the law of nature as are nuclear weapons.
 

Harem

I've cliqued
The Causes of Suffering
Man does not have one less rib than woman. Both have the same number of ribs
 

ukizook

Member
The Causes of Suffering
Ukizook,l mentioned about how man has interfered with the laws of nature.l still say there was a jump in some sort of disease that thrived better in the climate of the European countries then it did in the far east.But interfering with the laws of nature always results in castrotrophic circumstances.


Bob, where do you get the idea that "The Black Death" of the Europeans was in any way different to the plague that ravished China, India and the rest of the then known world. It was exactly the same, there was no strain or mutation and to say it thrived better in Europe more than China is again totaly wrong.
Man did not interfere with nature, nature simply followed man across the trade routes of Asia [or rather the rat's and fleas did] to bring the disease to Europe.
I suppose that man having a p*ss in the sea caused the Tsunami a few years ago causing all that suffering eh? You really should deal in facts rather than fiction or ideas that are randomly plucked out of thin air. And what about the rib thing? [EVIDENCE] you call it. You believe in that, even though millions of x-rays and thousands of surgeons have catagorically proved that man and women each have the same number 12 pair each . How can you [uless you only ever read scriptures and the like] believe in this nonsence and use it as a fact.
 
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bobthenob

Non Active Member
The Causes of Suffering
l know this is going way off topic,but l thought l'll copy this article about the history of the black death,because of it's has some very interesting points here.
Note also how man has inflamed the disease by slaughtering the dogs and the way they lived
.
Copied from the JW website
The year was 1347. The plague had already ravaged the Far East. Now it had arrived at the door of Europe's eastern outskirts.
THE Mongols were besieging the fortified Genoese trading post of Kaffa, now called Feodosiya, in the Crimea. Decimated by the mysterious disease themselves, the Mongols called off their attack. But before withdrawing, they made a deadly parting shot. Using giant catapults, they hurled the still-warm bodies of plague victims over the city walls. When a few of the Genoese defenders later boarded their galleys to escape the now plague-ridden town, they spread the disease to every port they visited.

Within months the whole of Europe was riddled with death. Rapidly it spread to North Africa, Italy, Spain, England, France, Austria, Hungary, Switzerland, Germany, Scandinavia, and the Baltics. In a little over two years, more than a fourth of the population of Europe, some 25 million souls, fell victim to what has been called "the most brutal demographic catastrophe humanity has ever known"—the Black Death.*

Setting the Stage for Disaster
The tragedy of the Black Death involved more than the disease itself. A number of factors worked to exacerbate this disaster, one of them being religious fervor. The doctrine of purgatory is one example. "By the end of the 13th century, purgatory was everywhere," says French historian Jacques le Goff. Early in the 14th century, Dante produced his influential work The Divine Comedy, with its graphic descriptions of hell and purgatory. A religious climate thus developed where people were inclined to meet the plague with surprising apathy and resignation, viewing it as a punishment from God himself. As we will see, such a pessimistic mind-set actually fueled the spread of the disease. "Nothing could have provided more promising material on which a plague might feed," notes the book The Black Death, by Philip Ziegler.

Then, too, there was the problem of repeated crop failures in Europe. As a result, the continent's burgeoning population was malnourished—ill-equipped to resist illness.

The Plague Spreads
According to the personal physician of Pope Clement VI, Guy de Chauliac, two types of plague had invaded Europe: pneumonic and bubonic. He graphically described these ailments, writing: "The first lasted two months, with continuous fever and spitting of blood, and from this one died in three days. The second lasted for the rest of the period, also with continuous fever but with apostumes [abscesses] and carbuncles on the external parts, principally on the armpits and groin. From this one died in five days." Doctors were helpless to halt the plague's progress.

Many people fled in panic—leaving thousands of infected ones behind. Indeed, among the first to flee were wealthy noblemen and professionals. Although some clerics likewise fled, many religious orders hid in their abbeys, hoping to escape contamination.

In the midst of this panic, the pope declared 1350 to be a Holy Year. Pilgrims who made the trip to Rome would be granted direct access to paradise without having to pass through purgatory! Hundreds of thousands of pilgrims heeded the call—spreading the plague as they traveled.

Vain Efforts
Efforts to control the Black Death were in vain because no one really knew how it was transmitted. Most realized that contact with a sufferer—or even with his clothing—was dangerous. Some even feared an afflicted one's stare! The residents of Florence, Italy, however, blamed the plague on its cats and dogs. They slaughtered these animals, little realizing that in doing so, they were giving free rein to a creature actually involved in spreading the contamination—the rat.

Men and women gave all they had to the church, hoping that God would shield them from illness

As deaths mounted, some turned to God for help. Men and women gave all they had to the church, hoping that God would shield them from illness—or at least reward them with heavenly life if they died. This put enormous wealth in the hands of the church. Lucky charms, images of Christ, and phylacteries were also popular antidotes. Others turned to superstition, magic, and pseudo medicine for cures. Perfumes, vinegar, and special potions were said to ward off the disease. Bloodletting was another favorite remedy. The learned medical faculty of the University of Paris even attributed the plague to the alignment of planets! Bogus explanations and "cures," however, did nothing to halt the progress of this killer plague.

Lasting Effects
Within five years the Black Death finally seemed to have run its course. But before the end of the century, it would recur at least four times. The aftereffects of the Black Death have thus been compared to those of World War I. "There is virtually no disagreement amongst modern historians that the advent of endemic plague had profound consequences for both the economy and for society after 1348," notes the 1996 book The Black Death in England. The plague wiped out a large portion of the population, and centuries passed before some areas recovered. With a diminished work force, the price of labor naturally rose. Once-wealthy landowners went broke, and the feudal system—a hallmark of the Middle Ages—collapsed in ruin.

The plague was, therefore, an impetus for political, religious, and social change. Prior to the plague, French was commonly spoken among the educated class in England. The death of numerous French teachers, however, helped the English language to gain ascendancy over French in Britain. Changes also came in the religious sphere. As French historian Jacqueline Brossollet notes, because of the shortage of candidates for the priesthood, "the Church too often recruited ignorant, apathetic individuals." Brossollet asserts that "the decadence of [church] centers of learning and faith was one of the causes of the Reformation."

The Black Death certainly left its mark on art, death becoming a common artistic theme. The famous danse macabre genre, commonly representing skeletons and corpses, became a popular allegory of the power of death. Unsure of the future, many survivors of the plague threw all restraint to the wind. Thus morals sank to shocking depths. As for the church, because of its failure to prevent the Black Death, "medieval man felt that his Church had let him down." (The Black Death) Some historians also say that the social changes that followed in the wake of the Black Death fostered individualism and enterprise and increased social and economic mobility—the precursors of capitalism.


© Bibliothèque Royale de Belgique, Bruxelles The Flagellants
sought to
placate God

The Sect of the Flagellants
Viewing the plague as a punishment from God, some sought to abate God's anger through self-inflicted whipping, or flagellation. The Brotherhood of the Flagellants, a movement said to number up to 800,000, reached its peak of popularity during the Black Death. The sect's rules forbade speaking with women, washing, or changing clothing. Public flagellation was practiced twice a day.

"Flagellation was one of the few outlets open to a fear-ridden population," notes the book Medieval Heresy. Flagellants were also prominent in denouncing the hierarchy of the church and in undermining the church's lucrative practice of granting absolution. Little wonder, then, that in 1349 the pope condemned the sect. In the end, though, the movement waned on its own after the Black Death passed.


The Black Death also spurred governments to establish systems of sanitary control. After the plague subsided, Venice took measures to clean up its city streets. King John II of France, called the Good, likewise ordered street cleaning as a means of countering the threat of an epidemic. The king took this step after learning of an ancient Greek doctor who had saved Athens from a plague by cleaning and washing the streets. Many medieval streets, which had been open sewers, were finally cleaned up.

A Thing of the Past?
It was not until 1894, though, that French bacteriologist Alexandre Yersin isolated the bacillus responsible for the Black Death. It was named Yersinia pestis after him. Four years later another Frenchman, Paul-Louis Simond, discovered the role of the flea (carried by rodents) in transmitting the disease. A vaccine was soon developed that enjoyed limited success.



Is the plague a thing of the past? Hardly. In the winter of 1910, some 50,000 people died from the plague in Manchuria. And each year the World Health Organization registers thousands of new cases—the number continues to rise. New strains of the disease have also been discovered—strains that are resistant to treatment. Yes, unless basic hygienic standards are adhered to, the plague remains a threat to mankind. The book Pourquoi la peste? Le rat, la puce et le bubon (Why the Plague? The Rat, the Flea, and the Bubo), edited by Jacqueline Brossollet and Henri Mollaret, thus concludes that "far from being a disease of old Europe in the Middle Ages, . . . sad to say, the plague is perhaps a disease of the future."
 

carolk

R.I.P
The Causes of Suffering
lt wasn't an apple,it was the fruit of the tree.
There are so many comments here are so wrong and distorted.lt will take up most of my time to answer all these comments,which l think is best to leave.

Ukizook,l mentioned about how man has interfered with the laws of nature.l still say there was a jump in some sort of disease that thrived better in the climate of the European countries then it did in the far east.But interfering with the laws of nature always results in castrotrophic circumstances.

Carol.l do think there is some evidence in the use of a rib being taken out of Adam to make Eve out of his DNA material.Have you noticed how man has one less rib,then a woman.
Look at it this way,if you bake a loaf of bread in a tin with a dent in it,all the other loaves will have an indentation for the entire use of that tin.
The same as a human that has been bred from the beginning leaving the mark as one less rib right up to the modern times.
What are your views on that one

Hi Bob, can we just agree to disagree on this topic Please? x
 

ukizook

Member
The Causes of Suffering
Good find Bob, It even backs up the idea that it WAS NOT man made ;)

I know your a gardener but really...............................stop digging holes for yourself ;)
 
The Causes of Suffering
its a well known thing that facts can always be manipulated to advance whatever argument you want to put forward.
Yes i believe in something ..im not an atheist ......however ii feel sorry for people who believe in hell fire and punishment...it must be awful to believe in something that wants to make us suffer...to trip us up and then make us pay for falling over...oooff
 

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