KKOB

Completely Chillaxed
The burkha and hijab
The thing that I find interesting is that banks, building societies and many shops in the UK can and will legitimately refuse entry to anyone wearing a crash-helmet, hoody or balaclava but could quite easily be accused of racial discrimination if they refused entry to a woman wearing a burka.

It's also ironic that whilst these women are apparently staying true to their religious beliefs and eastern culture by wearing the burka the one on the right in the photo is also embracing "western culture" and appears to be wearing jeans and trainers underneath.

I certainly don't think it's used to oppress women and in most cases it's the choice of the woman whether or not she wears either the burka or the hijab.
 
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Gin&Tonic

Member
The burkha and hijab
Are they allowed in offices, banks and shops etc in Turkey. I dont remember seeing any women wearing them when they are working.
 

Mushtaq

Founding Member
The burkha and hijab
Do you think its just to oppress women? Thoughts please.

Regardless of any other points about this, please note the majority of women are not forced to wear the Burkha or Hijab, it's their own choice to do so, oppression does not come into this, this is media manipulation and lack of understanding about culture.

I personally don't agree with women wearing the Burkha in western countries, Hijab on the other hand I think is fine and looks good on women.
 

maggie

Member
The burkha and hijab
In England I had a friend who converted to Muslim.

She used to wear a Burkha and a Hijab.

I thought she looked beautifull in them.It was her choice to wear it no one forced her.

We used to visit Leicester a lot to go to the Asian quarter.I used to wear a salwar suit I had bought in India and my friend her Burkha.The respect and warmth we recivied from the Asians was un beliveable.

I see nothing wrong if a woman wants to cover up and its her choice to do so then why not.

However I do see the other picture as regards to teaching in schools,medical profesion etc.
But to ban woman from wearing it is wrong in my mind.Will they ban the French wearing their Berets.????????

Hugs Maggie xx
 

leylaasena

Member
The burkha and hijab
Are they allowed in offices, banks and shops etc in Turkey. I dont remember seeing any women wearing them when they are working.


Women who work for the state- teachers, council official,tapu office,tax office etc. aren't allowed to cover their heads at work.

In banks and other big institutions I've never seen a woman covered altho that must be company policy not 'law'.

But women working in small shops and family buinesses are often covered.
 

ukizook

Member
The burkha and hijab
I think it should be their freedom of choice. I do believe however that the women ARE suppresed and in certain circles would be made to feel an outcast [or worse] if they didn't wear them.
Of course some women choose to wear them without any presure from the male elders, but would most of them "choose" to wear one if there would be no tongue wagging, or worse from the men?.
 

bobthenob

Non Active Member
The burkha and hijab
The Koran and the bible does mention a respect for women and does not approve of oppressive treatment that is so common throughout the world.Many forms of clothing are used to oppress people from the one that whats to gain power over that person.The Burka has no mention in the Koran about a woman being dressed to the point where she is so restricted it can interfere with her well being.lt does mention something about wearing clothes that are not so revealing,which can give out the wrong signals towards the people around.
The burka is worn by the extremists policies only to oppress the woman.All true Muslims and Christians treat women with respect and consideration that are neither racially prejudice.
The power hungry religious splinter groups that has no connection to what it says in the Koran,changes the scriptures to suit them for to gain power.The Burka should be banned if the women worldwide want this and condemn the splinter groups that are forcing people into an oppressive life.
Having a biased chauvinistic attitude against women with the intention to oppress is in no doubt going against what is mentioned in the Koran.Violence and the wearing of clothes to oppress women is completely contrary to what is written in the bible and the Koran.
The Burka and other oppressive clothing instigated by man will only stop the positive behaviour from woman to give out to others a wealth of her inner strength and her words of wisdom,which nurtures a loving kindness that are greatly appreciated from others.
Give the woman the freedom that she solely deserves and she will in return give you a love that will reward a promotion of peace on earth to flourish.
Men of evil that oppresses people do want war and misery in the world,because it gives them power over the meek.The men that do these vile evil acts are not Muslims as such,but are the main instigators in hijacking what is true to gain power for them to what is false.ln other words they have a terrorist mind and have terrorist characteristics that are to be used for the gaining of power only over the woman and society.
The abolish of the Burka is a step forward for the freedom of women's rights to gain a promotion of peace and respect.
 

carolmon

Member
The burkha and hijab
I'd welcome a ban on the burqa for many reasons.

I totally agree with Sarkozy's interpretation re the status of the women wearing the burqa and how it contradicts with Western expectations.

I also think they reduce the woman to an impersonal object.

But on another more personal level I find them really sinister garments.

There's something really unnerving about meeting a fully burqa clad wearer, I think it's because as humans we "read" people's faces for information and this is denied to us by the wearing of the burqa.

I don't know who is underneath the garment, could even be a male..........who knows???

We should be able to identify people by their facial features for many reasons, not least of all safety and protection issues.

I'm always amazed how shopping centres/ banks etc ban people wearing helmets and hoodies that fully cover the face, yet allow the burqa??

I have no problem with people wearing anything else, full headress or veil, but I believe we should be able to see people's faces. It's the very basic starting point of human interaction.
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
The burkha and hijab
There is an argument though that women have been brainwashed into thinking that the only way they can stay pure and desirable for their husband is if they stay hidden.

I don't know whether that's the case or not but it would certainly weaken the belief that most women are wearing these out of choice.

It's difficult for the likes of me to shake off the notion that muslim women aren't being forced to do things like this for example, when I observe the male dominated culture of Islamic countries such as Turkey.

Now that could very well be ignorance on my part, but, aside from the 'media manipulation, there is a definite perception that muslim women do what they're told - or else.

This is changing slowly in some places, but not at all in others.

I hope this hasn't sounded a little racist because I don't think women in France or anywhere else should be told what not to wear by governments.

C
 
The burkha and hijab
I think the Burka should be banned,
I have just read " A Thousand Splendid Suns" by Khaled Hosseini It is based on life for women in Afganistan under the Taliban & really opend my eyes to what life is like for many women!
 
The burkha and hijab
İ cant speak for freedom of choice to 'cover' in other countries or Muslim communities in the UKi
However there is pressure to cover here in Turkey. Many families make their daughters wear the scarf as soon as they have their first menstrual period. They have no choice.
İn many communities if a woman is uncovered she is gossiped about and considered promiscuous.There is peer pressure as well as parental pressure.
İn İran women are beaten by the police if they are not suitably covered, under the Shah they had freedom of choice.
İn İraq under Sadam Hussein women had more freedom, now they are being forced to cover up by religious fanatics.
The teaching in the Koran is for men and women to dress modestly.

İ have no problems with women covering (apart from the monstrous burhka) if it is freedom of choice, but i will argue strongly that it is not their choice.
İts a fathers choice, a mothers choice,a husbands choice a brothers choice a community choice..but not a woman's personal choice.
 

Lesley T

Member
The burkha and hijab
As a teacher working in a predominantly Muslim school in Birmingham, all the female Muslim staff wear hijab and most of the female students. Some of the girls have spoken to me about the pressure put on them to wear hijab- from their peers. Girls who didn't want to wear them were often shunned by the other girls and called unpleasant names by the boys.



I think the Burka should be banned,
I have just read " A Thousand Splendid Suns" by Khaled Hosseini It is based on life for women in Afganistan under the Taliban & really opend my eyes to what life is like for many women!

Absolutely brilliant book Miss M! You are right- it really does tell it like it is for many Muslim women. It moved me to tears.
 
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carolk

R.I.P
The burkha and hijab
I put this on because it was an article from a Muslim woman. It also goes with the current threads about clothes on here where many people are saying - when in Rome........ or does it only apply to Turkey where people should follow a certain dress code out of respect but, when it comes to the UK everyone has a choice?

I feel from the article the writer is saying its not a matter of choice in most cases.
 

zuberdust

IM THE BESTEST :)
The burkha and hijab
i see nothing wrong with hijab, but too mee burkah is a bit much, if they r made to wear it by force, thats wrong but if it is thier own personal choice, whats the big deal?
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
The burkha and hijab
i see nothing wrong with hijab, but too mee burkah is a bit much, if they r made to wear it by force, thats wrong but if it is thier own personal choice, whats the big deal?

The 'big deal' is if they're forced to wear it against their will, then women must have some form of protection eg legislation, if they wish to challenge it?

C
 

bobthenob

Non Active Member
The burkha and hijab
To me,l look at that type of clothing as a symbol of imprisonment and oppression.What is hidden behind that clothing are policies of fear from man to keep women where they want them and that is under the thumb.
Most want to get rid of this clothing,where some are in fear of speaking out against this clothing,because of reprisals.
What is behind the mask that men do not want to reveal.ls it to cover the beatings they inflict on women,is it to show they have power over you if you step out of line,by bringing great shame on the family by being attacked and raped,even though you were the victim.And an honour killing could be the punishment.
The burka symbolizes fear,oppression and imprisonment.And this is the reason why it must be abolished.
 

pebble

Member
The burkha and hijab
this is such a great thread, i think there is a lot of misunderstanding about the whole concept. these days, when we see the covered women be it a burka, hijab, or just the scarf it has the ability to get our ire going.

we were raised with the covering, it was around us, it was an assuming thing., people didnt give it a second thought really. now it has turned into a statement, to incite the feelings. good or bad.

this is my take on the situation:
back in the day......(very simplified version)
the women were covered for their protection, men are predators, they cant handle their feelings, they fly off the handle, they can become violent, men have impure thuoghts much more so than women - this is true, we all know it, look at all the violent crimes.
so women were protected in this manner, women in turn got used to this protection
(by the way, this is my take on the middle eastern/islamic way of life - the western society is even more deranged - sorry to make such a generalization, but hey - i've decided not to hold back anymore)
well..you all know i was born and raised in turkey, so i have a different take on things, and this is mine. i guess i should have prefaced this by saying how things are in turkey, but i think it applies to a lot of places in the islamic world

Women were made to feel confortable and safe behind the covering. I dont think they gave it much a thought.
then the world started to shrink, western people came to areas that they had never been, they exposed local cultures to far flung ideas, tried to convert the people from their religion, and instill in them western thouhts.
try to visualize the time line, im not talking modern day time, more like the late 1800s
the british started colonizing. you all know your own history better than me, so figure out the time......
sorry to be brutal
the british (and later the americans too) imposed their supposed superior ways, they made the locals feel inadequate (how true this is...we all know it.....but we never speak of it...cause honey now it aint poloitically correct)
they made fun of the locals and just treated them like **** - slaves - indentured servants etc., (i bet you didnt realize you were gonna get me on my soapbox)
we wanted to free the women and teach them the VALUES of life.
we indtroduced western garb, hats, gloves, dresses, etc.
we drove the men crazy, all that naked flesh exposed ready for the taking, frustrating them beyond imagination.
(im not a prude really)
then lets fast forward a couple of generations
burning of the bras
womens lib
lets fight back
the women were empowered, and of course we wanted our "locals liberated"
we taught them to be promiscues, apply make up, teach them the come hither look.....

what did we do? oh my god.....is this what our progressiveness did?

In turkey, i watched a small part of this, and it was sad to see how the western influx has changed the whole country, but certainly the role of men and women.
in the early 70's when we were getting the free spirits from the west (i too had never seen this) coming to our cities in hot pants, halter tops, my eyes were glazed, i begged my mother to get me short shorts and a risque tops, she resisted of course, but oh my god, i felt like i was the only one who wasnt dressed like that.

the young men migrating from the east had never ever seen such flesh, the rapes started, and of course we all sided with the villagers cause they had been taunted. but in reality, they didnt have the tools to cope with such nakedness.....

anyway....yada yada yada

today..........it is a polical statement as much as anything else.
the turkish government pays the villagers (who would wear the scarves anyway) to wear the scarf, the government pays the women in the cities (the poor and needy) to wear the scarf, they give them a salary. it is the severe head covering, there is a way they tie it, you can tell them.
this is wrong. most of those city girls dont want to wear them, but are under pressure from their families.
i know this, cause i have several friends who were involved in this scheme

i have seen pictures of women with the headscarf, wearing tight jeans, low cut blouses, full complement of make up etc.....whats with that????

do the ends justify the means? not in this case

what has transpired in the rest of the world is just a lot of smoke to create this movement, and i suspect, that the militants are behind it in some way to incite the crowds. as we see, it is a very violatile subject. when we see a burqua it piques our ire.
when i see the headcovering in turkey it pissed me off......

it has all gone awry

enough of my ramblings, i just used my todays energy on this, and cant remember if i made all the points i started out to make.........

BUT the bottom line is:
we have to respect each other. if our sister in afghanistan feels more comfortable wearing the burqua, who is she hurting?
if the villager in bodrum wears her scarve, who is she hurting?

its the militants we need to watch out for. if they can use religion to justify killing people, they wouldnt hesitate to use women and children at all............
 

ukizook

Member
The burkha and hijab
i see nothing wrong with hijab, but too mee burkah is a bit much, if they r made to wear it by force, thats wrong but if it is thier own personal choice, whats the big deal?

Suppose the women decided to write "or interpret" their own rules. They decided to make the men walk round with their eyes closed or covered up, this would stop them looking and having lustful thoughts. Any male caught with their eyes open or not covered up would the be publicly stoned or beaten at least, Guess what?. I would "CHOOSE" to walk round with my eyes shut, and people could say "what's the big deal"?.
 

Alan Fidler

Ceteris paribus
The burkha and hijab
I seem to remember a story in the press about a suspected terrorist.. ( male ) arrested attempting to leave the country..(UK)... i agree entirely that the suppression of women whatever their religion is completely wrong... but i also agree that they should be banned if they can be used in an effort to disguise oneself as in this example...
How on earth would immigration and passport control be expected to deal with this one at the airport..? The merest suggestion of asking someone to remove their Burka or veil could be misconstrued as a racial slur...
 

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