Taqiyya; lying

[Stumpel]

Google Taqiyya...many different opinions on this subject.

Could this be an explanation to the problems many western people experience in Turkey? From tapu's to car rental. I think it could be. Maybe there is no feel of guilt or shame, when lied to a non Muslim.

I expect some flaming, but don't bother anyway.

Nico

 

[Kirpi]

Google Taqiyya...many different opinions on this subject.

Could this be an explanation to the problems many western people experience in Turkey? From tapu's to car rental. I think it could be. Maybe there is no feel of guilt or shame, when lied to a non Muslim.

I expect some flaming, but don't bother anyway.

Nico

Well, you've given us nothing to think about, you have made no argument, you have closed your debate with "I expect some flaming, but don't bother anyway". So why did you post in the first place?

 

[Bibby]

Hmm, it seems we are all guilty of Kitman (especially politicians), not just Muslims..... Taqiyya: The Ultimate Intellectual Cop-out | loonwatch.com

 

[Stumpel]

Google first Kirpi, than answer.

 

[Kirpi]

Google first Kirpi, than answer.

I have.

 

[Stumpel]

Question is...for those people that do not want to understand: is lying more accepted in the Koran and thus non Muslims face the consequences? Just a question...denied by many but defended by others.

 

[Aleynasdad]

Thanlks for bringing this up but your statement is too simplistic, seemingly based on daniel Pipes readings. Taqqiya is that a muslim may only hide his or her identity as a Muslim in order to portect themselves from serious injury or death. It is ONLY restricted to this area. seems practical to me as this reflects what most human beings will do anyway. It doesnt allow you to go around lying e.g. to convince people how wonderful ıslam is or to defraud others.

 

[mrkeith]

Taqiyya: is indeed mentioned in the Quran, it is also mentioned in the Bible under the translation of dissimulation where it is said that our lord "pretended".
To me it reads that one may not lie as it is a sin to do so but one may deny knowledge or omit facts in order to futher ones cause.
I think it's a long way from corrupt emlaks and builders.

 

[Stumpel]

Some believe that taqiyyah goes further then indicated in the above posts, not strictly related to matters of live and death in case of religious inquisitions.

Islam Watch - "Understanding Taqiyya ― Islamic Principle of Lying for the Sake of Allah" by Warner MacKenzie

What also struck me is the paragraph on "honour and shame". Is this explaining the threats that posters recieve in this forum when posting about builders, emlaks etc?

And the paragraph on conspiracy of yhe 9/11 attack: recently Ahmadinejad supported this conspiracy theory openly. Mind you: this article was written in 2007.

I have nothing against Muslims or the Koran; but I wondered what caused all the problems regarding property, court cases, threats against posters etc.

Not sure if taqiyya is the answer to that; but I don't exclude that either.

Have a nice day,

Nico

 

[tykatem]

Surely a lie is a lie in any language? or religion come to that!

Pete

 

[de1amo]

it really 'amuses' me when people get hyper about emlaks in turkey--i knew estate agents and developers who were as bent as 9 bob notes back in the uk but people seem to think its unique to turkey--its happening all over the world --where there's 'real' money there is fraud happening

 

[suzyq]

What also struck me is the paragraph on "honour and shame". Is this explaining the threats that posters recieve in this forum when posting about builders, emlaks etc?.......

.......I have nothing against Muslims or the Koran; but I wondered what caused all the problems regarding property, court cases, threats against posters etc.

Not sure if taqiyya is the answer to that; but I don't exclude that either.

Have a nice day,

Nico

What caused all the problems regarding property...... has nothing to do with "Taqiyya", it is caused by criminals of different nationalities not just Muslims who are out to defraud people. If you have been reading posts you will find Turk, English and Irish involved. I also doubt that any of them follow any faith if they did they would be doing this to people.

 

[tykatem]

it really 'amuses' me when people get hyper about emlaks in turkey--i knew estate agents and developers who were as bent as 9 bob notes back in the uk but people seem to think its unique to turkey--its happening all over the world --where there's 'real' money there is fraud happening

Whilst I agree with what you say, at least in the UK the property market and estate agents are regulated and that redress can be easily sought

Pete

 

[de1amo]

regulation--in the uk?? its all advisory and easily 'got round' in the uk--i know loads of fraudsters making a good living out of property in the uk--its not as 'personal' as foreigners here feel about it--a lot of the slight of hand goes on between solicitors and estate agents and people are unaware of it in the uk---on this forum people get together and share their experiences which doesnt happen back in blighty! ----we all laugh at the joke--how do you know an estate agent is lying? answer his lips are moving but sadly that the reality back in the uk

 

[davlins]

in other words- economical with the truth. İ dont care what any religious book or dictat states or postulates- there is no place anywhere for the ripping off scamming defrauding and theft etc that goes on in Turkey (and elsewher)!!!

 

[Smiler]

Maybe there is no feel of guilt or shame, when lied to a non Muslim.

These are my exact sentiments when I come home drunk from the pub and my wife asks where I've been and I tell her I've been working late!!

 

[de1amo]

only the perpertrators like it but i cant see it as connected to religious beliefs because its universal.

 

[tykatem]

regulation--in the uk?? its all advisory and easily 'got round' in the uk--i know loads of fraudsters making a good living out of property in the uk

Current Position:

Regulations requiring estate agents engaged in residential estate agency work to join an approved redress scheme dealing with complaints about the buying and selling of residential property, came into force on 1 October 2008. Consumers who experience problems with estate agents now have access to free and independent redress.

Taken from Berr.gov.uk

I know which country i'd rather be in if faced with real estate fraud, one where the government has an ombudsman specifically for estate agents unlike the "deaf ear" approach found in Turkey when things go wrong.
Yes estate agents in the UK have been accused of being "economical " with the truth, it's usually to do with room sizes or property location and not the wholesale fraud that can be found here

Pete

 

[funlife]

Google Taqiyya...many different opinions on this subject.

Could this be an explanation to the problems many western people experience in Turkey? From tapu's to car rental. I think it could be. Maybe there is no feel of guilt or shame, when lied to a non Muslim.

I expect some flaming, but don't bother anyway.

Nico

Lets face it in any religion , race whatever there are people that will blatantly tell lies even RCs do it then later sit in a box and ask forgivnes (sorry first one that sprang to mind !) But the one point thats missing here is God did not make us perfect we have to learn from life and try to set an example to others God bless us all

 

[de1amo]

most of the estate agent fraud in the uk is done by property brokers as they like to call themselves--they hide in very discreet offices and pass brown envelopes around for advantages-the estate agents are in the trough -i had a friend who was an ex estate agent who got into'bed' with a broker and saw how shocking their fraud was-they even sell collected mail to id thieves!-there are many avenues for making money when you give someone the keys to your home!