sunnet or circumcision
i'm sure we all have seen the processions that occur whenever a child is about to be circumcised. its an occasion of great festivity...an important event for child and family. the following article explains the significance in turkish/islamic culture.

SUNNET (CIRCUMCISION)
Circumcision is an operation in which the foreskin of the penis is removed. It is a practice of great religious significance among certain religious groups, notably the Jews and the Moslems. Circumcision is known to have been practiced in ancient Egypt even before it was introduced to the Jews as part of God's covenant with Abraham. In Islam, however, the authority for circumcision came not from the Koran but from the example of the Prophet Mohammed. In Islam, whatever the prophet does or says is called sunnet; therefore this word stands for circumcision in modern Turkish.
Urologists claim that circumcised males have far fewer urinary tract infections and are less at risk for catching sexually transmitted diseases than are uncircumcised males. On the other side, pediatricians say that the medical risks attendant upon the surgery far outweigh the possible future consequences of foregoing the operation.
As an Islamic country, in Turkey all Moslem boys are circumcised between the ages 2-14 by licensed circumcising surgeons. From the social point of view, the most prominent feature of circumcision is the introduction of a child to his religious society as a new member. This explains the reason for circumcision of people who convert into Moslems as a first step. It is impressed on a boy at a very early age that circumcision is a step for transition to manhood. As long as they are accepted as very important events in people's lives, circumcisions are generally made with big ceremonies in festive atmosphere.
If a family has more than one boy, they wait for an appropriate time to perform it altogether. In this case the younger child might be less than 4. In some rural areas, villagers sometimes share expenses of a circumcision feast like they do with the work. Wealthy people may take poor boys or orphans together with their children for circumcision. Charity organizations make collective ceremonies for poor boys and orphans. Considering school periods of children, circumcisions are held in summer months while the children are on vacation, from June through September at weekends.

Circumcision Ceremony
When a family determines a date for their feast, they invite relatives, friends and neighbors by sending invitation cards in advance. Depending on the economic position of families, feasts might take place in a ceremonial hall or a hotel instead of a house. They prepare a highly decorated room for the boy with a nice bed and many colorful decorative things. Boys should also wear special costumes for this feast; a suit, a cape, a scepter and a special hat with "Masallah", meaning "God preserve him", written on it.
In the morning of the feast, the children of guests are all taken for a tour around in a big convoy with the boy either on horseback, horse carts, or automobiles. This convoy is also followed by musicians playing the drums and the clarinet.
After they come back, the boy wears a loose long white dress and, is circumcised by the surgeon while somebody holds him. This person who holds is called kirve, and has to be somebody close to the boy. In the eastern parts of Anatolia, this is the first contact of a big relationship which will continue for lifetime. He will play an active role in the boy's lifetime and have nearly equal rights with the father in decisions. This is similar to a godfather in Christianity. Although there is no blood relation to his kirve, the boy will not even be allowed to marry his kirve's daughter in order not to have incest because he is considered to have become somebody from the family.
After the circumcision, the boy is in pain and has to be kept busy with music, lots of jokes or some other animation. Presents also are given at this time to help him forget his pains. In the meantime words from the Koran are recited and guests are taken to tables for the feast meal which is a special one laid with different food changing from region to region. After a few days the boy recovers and festivities end.
Today, there is a small group of people who prefer their children to be circumcised in hospitals while they are in hospital after birth, whereby ignoring the traditional side
 

Helenbodrum

Member
sunnet or circumcision
does anyone have any views on circumcision? My husband (turkish) and myself (english) have many a heated 'discussion' on this matter regarding our future children!

Helen x
 

Mushtaq

Founding Member
sunnet or circumcision
Get it done as early as possible, less trouble for you and the kids.
 

JillyT

Slightly Crazy But Nice
sunnet or circumcision
My husband and I decided to get our son circumcised when he was just one. I wasn't keen on the idea, but I accepted the fact that we had decided to live in Turkey and as our son got older he would feel out of place and different from the other boys if he was not circumcised. I wanted it to be done when he was very young so that he wouldn't know what was happening and he wouldn't remember it in future. I also didn't want the thought of it having to be done hanging over me.
There was no ceremony. My husband is from the east of Turkey, and apparently that is not what they do there. The procedure was carried out in hospital under a general anaesthetic. It was the most heartbreaking thing I ever done because of the pain he was in and the amount of bleeding there was. He was in pain for around 10 days and as a mother for whom this procedure bears absoloutly no significance this made me feel so guilty. When I was pregnant with my second child, I so hoped it would be a girl so that I wouldn't have to go through the ordeal again. Thankfully, she was.
Now I am just pleased it is over and done with. He has healed well and is unaware that anything happened.
 

merlin

Member
sunnet or circumcision
Helenbodrum said:
does anyone have any views on circumcision? My husband (turkish) and myself (english) have many a heated 'discussion' on this matter regarding our future children!

Helen x


Helen

I lived out in the sticks as to speak for 2 years. Witnessed many sunnet ceremonies. Every time it left the child in agony and bedridden for 2-3 weeks.

Yakup, my son is 10 months old. His mother and her family are very village life orientated and we will definitely clash when the time comes round for Yakup. I would prefer the use of a private hospital but they most definitely will want the full works and what I consider barbaric DIY.

Merv
 

jimm

Member
sunnet or circumcision
Barbaric, It makes you wonder,who was the first guy that decided Hey I've got a great idea! I'll chop the top of my dick off.
 

Mushtaq

Founding Member
sunnet or circumcision
jimm said:
Barbaric, It makes you wonder,who was the first guy that decided Hey I've got a great idea! I'll chop the top of my dick off.

It seems to go back even further than Abraham, pre-biblical times!

So you can't lay the blame there either, but you can read an interesting history of it here http://www.cirp.org/library/history/

I had it done when I was very young, I remember it well :13:, it's wasn't not too traumatic :wow: just nervous of people holding knives now :18:

:hehe:
 

Gail

Member
sunnet or circumcision
jimm said:
Barbaric, It makes you wonder,who was the first guy that decided Hey I've got a great idea! I'll chop the top of my dick off.


:larf: :larf: :larf:

I was sat having tomato soup in my friends restaurant one fine day in Turkey and could hear joyfull music and see lights flashing on a top terrace. I could see the little boy running around with his friends then this blood chilling scream rang out, it made me feel sick to my stomach, the Turks around us were laughing and cheering, I couldn't believe it but I said nothing as, who am I to say it's wrong?

My sister in law is Jewish and my brother a Chrjstian, their first child was a beautiful little girl but their second was a beautiful little boy and in Israel the children automatically take their mother's religion, our little Ben was circumcised in their living room with my brother and sister in law hiding in the bedroom crying!! We're really tough in our family :boohoo:
 

Helenbodrum

Member
sunnet or circumcision
hmm its definately a tough one. Tayfun can remember being circumcised when he was 7 years old, along with his 2 brothers, and says it was completely traumatic but 'had to be done'. I hate the idea of my child being in pain, but also understand that if our son(s) grow up in Turkey it could be more mentally and socially damaging to that child long-term, than not being 'done'. I definately agree thats if its going to happen, doing it when the boy is young enough to have no memory of it and definately under a general anaesthetic is the best way to go.

I may change my mind when we have to make that decision for real though!

Helen x
 
sunnet or circumcision
there is an ongoing debate among some muslims about the validity of circumcision on religious grounds.
while not wishing to become involved in a sensitive issue (no pun) i feel the arguments for the procedure weak and erroneous. There is no real evidence that partners of uncircumcised males have a higher incidence of cervical cancer or other virus infections.
On religious grounds it is said that the cirumcised man is then in the image of god!! without being sacriligious it makes me wonder why does god need ..you know what.
and last as a health visitor i have seen first hand children suffering from this procedure. thankfully it is now realized in the uk that it is only in a very minority of children is it ever necessary.
 
sunnet or circumcision
As a qualified nurse, I have been in theatre when circumsions have been done under general anasethetic in the UK, for medical reasons. The amount of blood is horrendous as the penis is a very vascular organ. So not only is there a very real risk of heavy bleeding, there is also the serious risk of complications which comes from undergoing a general anasethetic, not to mention infection etc. Why subject a young child to all of these risks, unless absolutley neccasary? I can honestly say, in all my years of nursing I have not come across a male with a urine infection (loads of females tho') so I think that argument on medical grounds is a bit weak. I don't mean to insult any religion but I really can't understand why a procedure that carries so many health risks and heartache is still being carried out. It says it all when women are hoping they give birth to girls in order to avoid inflicting this horror on a child of theirs.

Caroline
 

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