Site rules and regs

[PASH]

I wonder if anyone can advise and help.

we have a small site of 17 units, two well intentioned but somewhat self serving individuals appear to want to run the whole site on their terms, making decisions for us all without consulatation. They hold meetings without inviting me ( i have two properties on the site) they have self appointed themselves secretary and chairman. I am sure thre are strict rules regarding this in Turkey and would like to be prepared when i challenge(politely) their legitimacy. As six of the units are unsold after 3 years, i would like to know if the builder has to pay his share towards the upkeep etc.

Any advice would be gratefully received

 

[carolk]

Pash, I think the short answer is yes they do have to pay until they are sold or even if he rents them out - they dont want to though. That was my experience on a complex.

 

[Peregrine]

Pash, I think the short answer is yes they do have to pay until they are sold or even if he rents them out - they dont want to though. That was my experience on a complex.

the other short answer could be no.

have you bought into a co-op?
who owns the common parts?
what is in your original contract? (and who was that with?)

there are rules governing housing copereratives (do a search to find more on that topic)

so the long answer is that it depends on the circumstances of the particular situation that you are in.

You might be well advised to get a lawyer

 

[PASH]

the other short answer could be no.

have you bought into a co-op?
who owns the common parts?
what is in your original contract? (and who was that with?)

there are rules governing housing copereratives (do a search to find more on that topic)

so the long answer is that it depends on the circumstances of the particular situation that you are in.

You might be well advised to get a lawyer

Thanks, its very complicated for my little grey cells but >

Its not a Co Op, its communial grounds. the builder is currently running the site through his own management company though does not contribute to the site financially, 10 units sold are the only ones paying the maintenance. we have requested accounts, decision books, etc but this meets with a brick wall. The two guys on site have been asked by the builder to manage the site as he does not have time, i do not think this is right or legal. I shall consult a lawyer but its yet more expense and would prefer to have a site lawyer paid for by the site. Sadly, my voice would just be shouted down by the self imposed management if i even suggested that

 

[carolk]

Yes Peregrine, you may be right about koops. Where I lived before on a complex the builder and land owner both had apartments and in that situation they both had to pay up in the end. The builder was trying to sell his and the land owner rented all hers out, neither paid toward the upkeep until a committee was formed when everyone else refused to pay as they wouldn't, and between them, they had about 12 appts so it was quite a bit of money each month/year. Thats my only experience.

Just seen Pash's second post. That was exactly my experience.

 

[Peregrine]

Thanks, its very complicated for my little grey cells but >

Its not a Co Op, its communial grounds. the builder is currently running the site through his own management company though does not contribute to the site financially, 10 units sold are the only ones paying the maintenance. we have requested accounts, decision books, etc but this meets with a brick wall. The two guys on site have been asked by the builder to manage the site as he does not have time, i do not think this is right or legal. I shall consult a lawyer but its yet more expense and would prefer to have a site lawyer paid for by the site. Sadly, my voice would just be shouted down by the self imposed management if i even suggested that

ok, builder (developer) owns a peice of land. Builds some houses and sells 2 to you with a contractual requirement for you to contribute to the upkeep of the "common parts". Simple - you have to pay, he doesnt. So long as he meets his part of the contract you dont have any cause to complain

so its all down to what you signed up to. The "common parts" may be in shared ownership, or may be retained by the builder/developer and held as an asset in the management company (thats what I would do). Its a nice little earner, a steady income and if the contract is properly worded no real obliigations

so, dust off your contract then get down to the lawyers office

i,m afraid its a classic case of not asking the right questions before making the purchase. Its Turkey, not the UK and often they do things differently (oh, and they fleece the rich foreigners too)

 

[PASH]

ok, builder (developer) owns a peice of land. Builds some houses and sells 2 to you with a contractual requirement for you to contribute to the upkeep of the "common parts". Simple - you have to pay, he doesnt. So long as he meets his part of the contract you dont have any cause to complain

so its all down to what you signed up to. The "common parts" may be in shared ownership, or may be retained by the builder/developer and held as an asset in the management company (thats what I would do). Its a nice little earner, a steady income and if the contract is properly worded no real obliigations

so, dust off your contract then get down to the lawyers office

i,m afraid its a classic case of not asking the right questions before making the purchase. Its Turkey, not the UK and often they do things differently (oh, and they fleece the rich foreigners too)

Thanks, off to find the marigolds and duster, will have a look at the contract and see what it stipulates. Thanks for your help Pash

 

[Peregrine]

Thanks, off to find the marigolds and duster, will have a look at the contract and see what it stipulates. Thanks for your help Pash

only sorry that I cant give you the exact answer without seeing all the documents

good luck tho'

 

[sweetyali]

I have no personal experience of this but do have friends who have. I know people at Alexander Hills and their problems. I sure if you could contact someone from their committee they would be able to help as I know they had to look into all the legalities when they had their own problems. I thought it was a legal requirement in Turkey to have a committee. I know people on smaller sites than yours and they have had to do this.

 

[sweetyali]

sorry I should have said that the committee has to be voted in not just self appointed.

 

[Peregrine]

sorry I should have said that the committee has to be voted in not just self appointed.

dont get mixed up between a co-op and a private estate

if I build a private estate and sell you a house on it on the condition you pay for 50% of the maintenance for the whole site then tthats what you have to pay.

and if I own the management company theres no voting involved

as I said before, get out the contract and find out the facts

 

[PASH]

dont get mixed up between a co-op and a private estate

if I build a private estate and sell you a house on it on the condition you pay for 50% of the maintenance for the whole site then tthats what you have to pay.

and if I own the management company theres no voting involved

as I said before, get out the contract and find out the facts

Just read the contract which stipulates we own 1/16 of the land share and the apartment annotated as A1. I assume this means that its communial grounds?

 

[jearden]

At the planning application stage of a complex, many developments are registered as a number of separate land parcels all linked by annotation to the title deeds and management plans as required by the mass building condominium law.

Land share normally refers to your share of the total parcel area on which the property is built. In your case you have 1/16 share, which begs the question of whether property 17 is on a different land parcel, perhaps together with some communal facilities, which if so adds legal complications regarding owner rights to that parcel.

To form an effective site management committee you need a voting majority of like-minded owners who are prepared to work strictly to the law. From my experience you have little chance of achieving your objectives unless owners are willing to be actively involved and prepared to fund legal help at every stage.

Bear in mind that for voting purposes the owner is the one with the title deeds, so although there may be 11 properties sold they may not all have voting rights. However, no owner can have more than one third of the total voting rights so your builder is limited to 5 votes.

 

[sweetyali]

sorry peregrine, i understand what you are saying about the management company, but if you have a complex committee surely these people should be voted in by all the other owners and not just self appointed

 

[Peregrine]

Just read the contract which stipulates we own 1/16 of the land share and the apartment annotated as A1. I assume this means that its communial grounds?

this sounds good. if you own 1/16th of the land on both properties then you have 1/8th of the votes on setting up an organisation or comitteee

good point too by jearden - probably the builde has 17 and can use the facilities free (typically Turkish)

next step? get the support of some others and start the ball rolling for a revoultion

 

[PASH]

this sounds good. if you own 1/16th of the land on both properties then you have 1/8th of the votes on setting up an organisation or comitteee

good point too by jearden - probably the builde has 17 and can use the facilities free (typically Turkish)

next step? get the support of some others and start the ball rolling for a revoultion

The 17th property is classed as a depot according to the gardener, my understanding is this is for storage etc. It is currently kitted out with kitchen bathroom, consists of two beds and livingroom and terrace and his building manager and family stay there.

 

[carolk]

Pash, I have seen this often, it usually comes with the job, as Peregrine says its time to get to grips with it all as it looks like you are being taken for a ride (happens all the time). In your circumstances, we all stopped paying to force a meeting and have it all done by election and out in the open.

 

[jeff]

We have been through all this on a similar sized complex. It sounds like yours is a private complex like ours and each villa has to pay their share of the complex fees and there should be a democratically elected chairman and committee. Each villa has one vote so if the builder has a large number of unsold villas then the builder may retain a majority. Fortunately, on our complex we have a majority. Our builder, who was the chairman, has been ousted as has the hopeless manager he installed and we are now moving in the right direction. Not easy but if you can round up the support then all is possible. I understand that by Turkish law there has to be an AGM at which owners have the right to vote for the officials, budget, etc. The owners themselves have the power to call for a meeting. Do not give up. PASH, please PM me if you want more info. I am not sure what if anything your purchase contract has to do with it as ours was silent on these issues but there is Turkish law to deal with the management of villa complexes. PASH, I think your lawyer will know all this.

Re carolk's comments I would be very wary indeed of withholding fees. Usually, that helps nobody and in our case caused us even worse problems with some owners refusing to pay. We then had a nightmare problem with no maintenance being performed, running out of water, electricity threatened to be cut off. You name it, we had it! But we have now come through all that with some hard team work.

 

[carolk]

We had little choice Jeff, 5 people paying for 42 apartments!! We all had our own elec and water in our name. Maintenance was not being done and the communal pool left stagnant. The maintenance collected from the 5 of us paid for the communal elec and water but not for cleaning and pool filling. Most people on the site were OK with that as it was and, as long as we paid and it covered the bare minimum it was OK (it seemed). So the builder just kept coming to the few of us for money. We who payed, decide we did not care about the communal lights or water and used a torch at night. The funny thing was, when the communal elec was cut off they convened a meeting very quickly, ousted the builder from running the maintenance and formed a proper legal committee. Also, we had people going to the communal water points with big buckets each night to fill them up and then take them indoors!!!

Sometimes you have to do things like that (be without the communal elec) to make a point.

 

[jeff]

Thanks Carolk. I can see it may work in some circumstances and maybe PASH might fall into that category. At the time we did not have electricity in our own name and the non payers caused us serious grief. We got ourselves into a circular problem - people not paying because of unsatisfactory management but then difficult for us to sort because of those people's unpaid debts. I think PASH's problem is going to be getting a majority vote. We were fortunate in not having that difficulty and so we could band together and sort the problems. It was far from easy but we got there in the end.