Saoirse

Moderator
Scotland - SNP....What Next
You mean like the way the Brexit campaign was run?


I can see where it gets confusing for Tories and their naive followers

During Indy Ref 1 Johnson told the Scots they must stay with the UK as it was imperative for Scotland to be in the EU........
 

mollag

Kipper restorer
Scotland - SNP....What Next
It grieves me to see the casual acceptance of political lies, graft and corruption even to posters excusing and justifying the liars and thieves, we really are descending into 3rd world style regime territory where shoulders are shrugged and corruption ignored, we used to be better than this :(
 

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Scotland - SNP....What Next
Somehow I doubt Nicola will tell us the pros and cons of joining the EU.
My take is, she hasn't got to tell me the pros and cons of joining the EU.........she will have to tell the Scots though. I think she'll be challenged on all fronts, those in Scotland who don't want the break up of the Union & those who simply don't want to rejoin the EU as well.
Will she even be able to give a "re-entry" date, I think not, in fact I'm sure she cant.
 

immac

Senior Member Has-Been
Scotland - SNP....What Next
Sounds like a no to me, it will be yours if they do achieve separation , as we have done from the EU, and decline the rump UK's wish that they store their sh1t for them, surely you must wish them well and cheer their endeavor to go their own way, I do . Good luck Caledonia, from Eubonia.
I do. No contradiction or dilemma in this for me: if the majority want independence let them have it, and the sooner the better. But not another poll, then another, until they get the right answer.

The comparison to Brexit is not exact - different historical starting point and time frame - but close enough for me to understand their feelings.

I can see the dilemma for Brexit Remainers, how to support Scottish independence but oppose UK divorce from EU: amusing to watch them twisting in the wind.

Ian
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Scotland - SNP....What Next
I can see where it gets confusing for Tories and their naive followers

During Indy Ref 1 Johnson told the Scots they must stay with the UK as it was imperative for Scotland to be in the EU........
 

immac

Senior Member Has-Been
Scotland - SNP....What Next
I can see where it gets confusing for Tories and their naive followers

During Indy Ref 1 Johnson told the Scots they must stay with the UK as it was imperative for Scotland to be in the EU........
So you are saying that one person, who was not in a position to influence anything, swung the vote? More twisting in the wind, I think. In which case every vote can be overturned by finding anyone who voiced a differing opinion at any time in the past: curious logic.

Ian
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Scotland - SNP....What Next
One person?

The Tory party including many of the leadership May Johnson Gove etc were all banging on about it

They went to Scotland preaching this guff

It was their main message in their anti Independence campaign

So tell us Immac were they lying then or lying when they pushed Brexit as good for Scotland
 

mollag

Kipper restorer
Scotland - SNP....What Next
I do. No contradiction or dilemma in this for me: if the majority want independence let them have it, and the sooner the better. But not another poll, then another, until they get the right answer.

The comparison to Brexit is not exact - different historical starting point and time frame - but close enough for me to understand their feelings.

I can see the dilemma for Brexit Remainers, how to support Scottish independence but oppose UK divorce from EU: amusing to watch them twisting in the wind.

Ian
There is no dilemma, like, the ex remainers, Scotland may become rejoiners. The dilemma is the rabid Brexiteers who would deny Scotland the same opportunity that they fought for, they dont like the idea the Scotland may not like the decision made on Brexit and will take steps to reverse it, indeed, Brexiteers do not like it up em, first Scotland, no more Gt Britain, then Northern Ireland---no more UK. Little England , plus Wales will have no problem coping outside of Europe
 

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Scotland - SNP....What Next
Leaving the UK will be up to those in Scotland, rejoining the EU is in the hands of others.
If independence is taken, I’d be interested to know how long the transition period will be between the UK & Scotland. Would Scotland for example want/expect that period to last until they are a full member of the EU again? Realistically, that could take years.
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Scotland - SNP....What Next
All these issues need examined and debated then decisions taken- crucially however those decisions must be taken by Scots not the English metropolitan elite with no connection and little or no mandate in Scotland

In the 21st century the constitutional make up of the UK is becoming an international embarrassment with regions ruled by London where they have zero or next to zero mandate

Johnsons threat sadly parroted by the alleged main opposition party- to use constitutional law to force regions to remain in the Disunited Kingdom is as absurd as it is desperate
 

mollag

Kipper restorer
Scotland - SNP....What Next
An interesting piece for the for the Scotland well wishers, those who would hold them back may return heads into sand.

"A future accession to the EU of an independent Scotland is seen as considerably more straightforward than the current accession paths of the western Balkans candidate countries, not least as Scotland was in the EU, as part of the UK, for 47 years."


The work has been carried out in partnership with the Konrad Adenauer Foundation, a German think-tank. Almost 20 key EU actors and observers in Brussels and 11 member states gave in-depth, off-the-record interviews.

Hughes, SCER director, said: “This new in-depth policy paper presents a rather negative set of EU views on the UK’s image, reputation and influence.

"The UK is seen since the 2016 Brexit vote, to have become unreliable, unpredictable, and untrustworthy and to have lost its previous substantial influence in Europe. Many are both appalled and concerned.” [ Sounds like he is describing Boris :confused: ]
 

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Scotland - SNP....What Next
All these issues need examined and debated then decisions taken- crucially however those decisions must be taken by Scots not the English metropolitan elite with no connection and little or no mandate in Scotland

In the 21st century the constitutional make up of the UK is becoming an international embarrassment with regions ruled by London where they have zero or next to zero mandate

Johnsons threat sadly parroted by the alleged main opposition party- to use constitutional law to force regions to remain in the Disunited Kingdom is as absurd as it is desperate

I agree, the decision is to be made by the Scots and not the English but when it comes, to rejoining the EU, that involves the Scots, 27 other countries and Brussels itself.
Since when has the EU made concessions? Scotland will propose, EU will demand.....that’s how they roll.
 

Kanga

Member
Scotland - SNP....What Next
In the last referendum anyone living in Scotland was eligible to vote. This included anyone who had come in from abroad and had a permit for a minimum 90 day stay. This time, will it be different?
All UK taxpayers contribute towards all four nations; British expats now living abroad who were UK/Scottish born should also have a vote. How can it be reasonable that someone from anywhere else in the world with no links to Scotland other than a work permit can have a say in the future when Scottish born people who may live in London or anywhere else outside Scotland have no say in the matter?
 

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Scotland - SNP....What Next
It would be down to Scotland if they were an EU member to follow EU border rules

Exactly, so that would be a border, certainly for goods in and out.
Currency wise IMO Scotland would have choices, limited choices but nonetheless choices, border wise surely that wouldn’t be their choice, that would be the EUs.
 

mollag

Kipper restorer
Scotland - SNP....What Next
It would be down to Scotland if they were an EU member to follow EU border rules
It could be a Boris Border---It's a border, dont cross it, unless you have to, then cross it but use the invisible one in the Irish Sea that I categorically swore would not exist, but did happen while i was picking wall paper for me bed warmer.
 

mollag

Kipper restorer
Scotland - SNP....What Next
Exactly, so that would be a border, certainly for goods in and out.
Currency wise IMO Scotland would have choices, limited choices but nonetheless choices, border wise surely that wouldn’t be their choice, that would be the EUs.
As Scotland would not have a land border with any other EU state then the same system operating up till recently for the UK could be used, ie Customs borders in France, Spain etc, if there were a " Hadrians" wall border then no Customs required in Europe,--except for the rump GB, all the clues are there if we look. [ Perhaps a good reason for some industries to relocate to the North, smooth access to European markets :unsure: ]
 

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Scotland - SNP....What Next
It could be a Boris Border---It's a border, dont cross it, unless you have to, then cross it but use the invisible one in the Irish Sea that I categorically swore would not exist, but did happen while i was picking wall paper for me bed warmer.


This will be nothing to do with Boris, this will be between the EU and Scotland. The EU still has external borders with other non-EU European Nations.
I don’t mind how it’s played out but it’s interesting how they resolve something like that.
 

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