KKOB

Completely Chillaxed
Ronnie Biggs
I think that for once a Minister has made a good judgement call. Biggs hasn't shown any remorse and hasn't served enough time. He should stay in jail.

Why should they/we find him a place in a rest home worth £30,000 pa ?
 

immac

Senior Member Has-Been
Ronnie Biggs
Agree, leave him to rot.

I used to get boiling mad when he was on the run showing off and making fun of British police.
I am all for early release of people who show some contrition, but he seems as arrogant in his old age as he was 20 years ago.
His crime was not victimless as is often suggested. The railwayman went to an early grave because of Biggs and his gang.
No remorse = no release. And even if he does now feign remorse, still leave him there.

Ian
 

bobthenob

Non Active Member
Ronnie Biggs
What l am boiling mad about is when he decided to come back to Britian to exploit the taxpayers health service.And as expected,we are the dumping ground for the criminal minds of the world to settle in Britian as a haven.
l will never forget what he did to those poor hard working people on that train and then laugh about it,while he was enjoying the high life on the public's money that didn't belong to him.
He should've been made to work hard,to pay back the victims for the money he has stolen and also the misery he has put so many people through as a way of compensation.
lt seems this country welcomes criminals by pampering to them with rewards from the taxpayer.Did you read the papers about we are the most violent country in the E.U and America now.What does the system expects when the dishonest are rewarded more then the one's that can contribute something worthwhile that helps with the society to bond.lt something l knew for some while and didn't need the Authorities to tell me this.
 
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Mushroom

Member
Ronnie Biggs
Whether he is repentant or not, the punishment should fit the crime in a civilised democracy.
It never did in the first place and on that basis, he should have been released by now.
Take a look at any major criminal these days, involved in stealing in a more sophisticated way in the city and there is probably no chance that he would ever serve more than a couple of years in a cushy category 3 prison with all comforts and then come back out to a lifestyle of luxury.
Biggs was a bit part player in what was an armed robbery. He wasn't the mastermind, just a foot soldier. It wasn't him that coshed the driver, who in any case died outside of the legislation which would have made it a murder or manslaughter, and the legislation couldn't be altered to fit that incident, so what stood at that time was it.
In short, he was an armed robber and he should have served time for his involvement, however the politics of the day dictated outrageous sentences.
I am all for longer sentences, but they have to be on a level playing field.
The man who goes into the newsagents today with a gun (real or imitation) and hits the owner around the head before leaving with his takings would not get half of what Biggs got, yet the offences are the same.
The politics are different.

If anyone thinks letting an old man out to serve his days in a Nursing home at the quoted £30K per year is unsatisfactory, try getting the calculator out and working out the cost of having him guarded around the clock by two prison officers whilst he is in an NHS bed, in a place away from the public and if that works out any cheaper please let us know !
As for Jack Straw, less said about that bloke the better.
 

KKOB

Completely Chillaxed
Ronnie Biggs
If anyone thinks letting an old man out to serve his days in a Nursing home at the quoted £30K per year is unsatisfactory, try getting the calculator out and working out the cost of having him guarded around the clock by two prison officers whilst he is in an NHS bed, in a place away from the public and if that works out any cheaper please let us know !
As for Jack Straw, less said about that bloke the better.

Prisons have hospital wings, let him stay there. :dooh:
 

hijo

in my own clique
Ronnie Biggs
they should let him go ..they say he shows no remorse..my god the mans 79 years old with altziemers,and a bad heart and had so many strokes,jeeez he would,nt know how to show remorse,let alone tell the time ..right he was involved in the crime of that century....crimes that do fit the sentence are people like huntly and people like him ..any child molesters ..and people that murder old people (cowards) just to get a couple of quid ..ok i felt sorry for the family of the train guard that was killed..but the sentence do,snt fit the crime ..i have always thought Ronnie biggs was made a scapegoat..and made an example of ..pathetic..if you mug and murder an old person ..your out in 10 years..get a life these old die-hard so called politicians..
 
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Saoirse

Moderator
Ronnie Biggs
woooosh!

That was the sound of my SARCASTIC comments going over your head!

The old man should be shown some compassion and allowed to die outside of prison
 

MISSC2000

Member
Ronnie Biggs
Age has not got anything to do with it - whether your young or OLD you give up your rights when you commit a crime - He should count himself lucky he is in a British Prison.

C
 

Mushroom

Member
Ronnie Biggs
Rights to what? A fair sentence in proportion to his involvement with the crime?
If you recall they stole old banknotes, which were going to be put out of circulation, and the value of which could be replaced by the stroke of a political pen.
They did not steal from individuals and for that reason, I would still contend it was the magnitude and political 'embarrasment' at the time which resulted in sentences which were way off the scale.
If today, we are giving out life sentences for murder that equate to only 4 or 5 years in prison, then stealing banknotes is obviously in the eyes of the 'system' put way ahead of taking a life in the sentencing league table.
The sentences were wrong then and woudn't even get past the first round at Strasbourg nowadays.
Perhaps, anyone handed a sentence so harsh, when looking at others getting so minimal would be at least understood, if not excused, for trying to escape.

Bob, you never fail to surprise me. I am not the religious one, so I don't profess to live by the teachings or any of that, but I think there is mention in the bible of "Letting he without sin cast the first stone" "Turning the other cheek" and probably loads more.
Is it another case of the book being important when it suits?
As for exploiting the taxpayers health service, well seeing as most everyone else seems to be coming here to take advantage, I suppose at least if he is a Brit and serving his sentence as a Brit in British custody, he has more rights than a lot more I could think of.
As for this place being a dumping ground for criminals, at least he was one of ours and not an import.
In a country where the biggest criminals are now running the show and the amounts we are talking about in both the city and our politicians are far in excess of anything the train robbers could ever have done, I am back to the argument of making the punishmnemt fit the crime on a level playing field.

If the best example of getting tough with crime is for Jack Straw to disallow an old man who is probably already preparing for his forthcoming death to be kept as a 'prisoner' because he apparently has not shown remorse, even though he has now served more than a murderer and is obviously not going to be a repeat offender, we have the classic example of how much justice and the plot have been lost.
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Ronnie Biggs
excellent post.

I especially think your "let he is without sin" refernce applies to any politician calling for Ronnies continued detention
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
Ronnie Biggs
There are good arguments from both sides here. It shouldn't be forgotten that if Biggs had served his time a long time ago, then he would have been released a long time ago.

Instead, he ran away and stuck his fingers up at the establishment which is probably why he's being punished now, but it does smack of revenge.

The other thing to remember is that the only reason he came back to Britain was that he ran out of money and needed medical care that the good old taxpayer could provide him with.

I think however when you weigh everything up, he should be released - his quality of life will be rubbish anyway and a more deserving criminal needs his cell.

What is pretty concerning though is the likes of Jack Straw being able to override the decisions of vastly more knowledgable professional people than him ie the parole board.


C
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
Ronnie Biggs
To me it is just this governments way of showing that they are tough on crime ! I would release him and lock up some real criminals, anybody who saw crimewatch the other night should try to compare what biggs did to what the gang of scroats did to that old disabled Dr. How long do you think they will get if caught ? i bet biggs has already served more time than they would get - definately a political sentence

martin
 

kiaya

Member
Ronnie Biggs
Does anybody remember the Guinness fraud and the guy Ernest Saunders. He was let out of prison early due to him being diagnosed with Alzeimers,but miraculously recovered and is still to this day the only person alive to recover from this disease. Whether Ronnie Biggs would be another Lazarus like Ernest Saunders I don't know but since
Ronnie Biggs came back to the U.K. in 2001 he has petitioned on several occasions for early release due to health reasons. Whether you think his sentence was harsh or not it must be remembered that he only served two years of it before he escaped and since the early seventies led a pretty high profile life in Brazil.
 

PASH

Member
Ronnie Biggs
Compared to some of our Bankers in the Uk, Ronnie Biggs is but an amateur petty thief! If he can be locked up for over 12 years, its about time we did the same with the Bankers that have brought the Uk to near collapse and have shown no remorse whatsoever!!!!!!!!! Free his jail cell up and throw Fred the shred and the likes in there. Ronnie Biggs and Co may have ruined one poor chaps life but the thieving incompetent bankers have ruined thousands of lives.
 
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giglets

Member
Ronnie Biggs
Biggs was part of a gang which stole, in todays terms, the equivalent of approx £40 million pounds.

The crime was comitted in 1963, he was caught and sentenced to 30yrs imprisonment in 1964 and escaped in 1965, having served only 15 months.
He fled to Paris, from there to Australia and ended up in in Rio de Janeiro, taking with him a substntial amount of the loot.
He then led the high-life, mixing with various rock stars and media types until the money ran out and his health deteriorated. He returned to the UK in 2001, primarily to take advantage of the free health service, albeit in prison, where he was placed to serve out the remainder of the initial sentence.
During the robbery, the train driver, Jack Mills, was hit over the head with a heavy iron bar. Although he survived, he suffered recurring severe headaches until his death from leukemia in 1970.
Until a few months ago, Biggs had shown no sign of remorse or contrition for his crime.

Biggs was sentenced at a time when armed robberies were on the increase, and a "deterrent effect" was definitely part of judicial thinking.
Under present guidelines and EU rules, Biggs would have received a shorter sentence, however, the majority of UK citizens do not agree with this more "liberal" approach (as has been demonstrated by numerous polls) and think that todays criminals are let off with derisory penalties. Since Biggs has served a total of less that one third of his alotted time, I thing public sympathy in this regard would be sparse.

To sum up, Biggs was a career criminal (starting with desertion from the Army in his formative years) who belonged to a gang of violent thugs and who was well aware of the likelihood of a serious assault, or worse, taking place on the night of the robbery. He was treated as "art in part" of whatever occurred during its' commission, not solely as a getaway driver.
He was sentenced to what, back then, was generally consdered to be a heavy but fair term of imprisonment, escaped and sought celebrity and fame, based on his criminality.
He is now getting what he richly deserves, in terms of incarceration and it is very unfortuate that he will probably die there.
However, many elderly prisoners die of natural cause in prison every year without public notice or comment - but they are not in the public eye and do not benefit from lobbying by media luvvies, and others,on their behalf.

Biggs should be treated no differently .

As a postscript, there are thousands of elderly people, annually, in the UK, who die in circumstances much worse than do prisoners.
I would rather that as much effort was expended to alleviate this tragic state of affairs, as seems to be directed towards the welfare of this criminal.

Also, someone mentioned the competence/experience of Parole Boards in deciding who gets early release - this would be the same Parole Board system which, during the life of this Government, has approved the early release of 65 convicted murderers back into our society, who have then gone on to commit 3 further murders, 1 attempt murder, 3 rapes, 1 paedophile attack, 2 woundings causing grievous bodily harm and 3 kidnappings??
Seems to work just fine, then.
 

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