zozatky

Member
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Remember the guy who got on a plane with a bomb built into his shoe and tried to light it?


Did you know his trial is over?
Did you know he was sentenced?
Did you see/hear any of the judge's comments on TV or Radio?

Didn't think so.!!!

Everyone should hear what the judge had to say.


Judge Young's Comments to the Shoe Bomber - BreakTheChain.org
 
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immac

Senior Member Has-Been
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
"And we do not negotiate with terrorists. We do not treat with terrorists. We do not sign documents with terrorists. We hunt them down one by one and bring them to justice. "
He should add:
"Unless you are Taliban when we will offer to pay you not to fight with us in Afghanistan."

Ho Hum

Ian
 

mollag

Kipper restorer
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Its an old method called "Danegelt" and Britain was paying these guys great grandfathers just the same. I wonder, after all our invasions with the damage and death we have caused over the centuries, do they still like us?
 
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Its an old method called "Danegelt" and Britain was paying these guys great grandfathers just the same. I wonder, after all our invasions with the damage and death we have caused over the centuries, do they still like us?

No sovereign state can tolerate the invasion by another state. No western country would accept it, for whatever reason, and the same goes for Afghanistan and Iraq and Jemen and what have you.

In some cases governments are corrupt or intimidated enough to allow it, but that will always be against the will of the people who are never asked anyway. When the people fight back to defend their rights as a nation they are often branded Terrorists and Insurgents and what not. The hatred this breeds is not directed against the West per se. Nor is it against Freedom, but against injustice and the perpetrators of injustice.:21:
 

SuperBogs

I miss you Pebble
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Your post threw me for a loop. Simple question, are you a supporter of these terrorists acts?

Bob
 
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Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Your post threw me for a loop. Simple question, are you a supporter of these terrorists acts?

Bob

No of course not! What I'm saying is that fighting against the occupiers of your country should not be construed as terrorism, so long as it does not involve acts of terrorism.
 

giglets

Member
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
As far as Afghanistan goes, the latest poll of Afghanis reveals that 83% support the US "invasion" to drive out the Taliban and only about 8% support the Taliban cause.

Whilst I accept that polls do not give the full picture, these results appear to confirm that the overwhelming majority of Afghan citizens do not see the presence of Western forces, in their country, as anything but positive.



Dave
 

SuperBogs

I miss you Pebble
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
As far as Afghanistan goes, the latest poll of Afghanis reveals that 83% support the US "invasion" to drive out the Taliban and only about 8% support the Taliban cause.

Whilst I accept that polls do not give the full picture, these results appear to confirm that the overwhelming majority of Afghan citizens do not see the presence of Western forces, in their country, as anything but positive.



Dave

Post the link that shows those results will you please Dave.

Bob
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
LOL

Love these"independent polls"


Next you will be telling us Karzai is an honest man and a popular leader!

When the USSR was in occupation there they too churned out propaganda polls saying they were welcome-it didnt end the resistance nor their eventual expulsion from the country

This latest occupation will end in tears too
 

giglets

Member
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Bob,

Sorry, but don't have the skill to post "link".
My son normally does this for me, but he is out partying tonight.
However, I can perhaps just give you the details so you can find it yourself -


I think it is under " news.bbc.co.uk/2hi/8448930.stm" - from BBC News.

83% reference is immediately beneath pie-chart on the page.

The 8% support for Taliban was quoted by Gordon Brown/David Milliband at press interviews today, before and after Summit.



Dave
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Bob,



The 8% support for Taliban was quoted by Gordon Brown/David Milliband at press interviews today, before and after Summit.



Dave

Priceless!


Ps Even if it wasnt made up that figure is probably higher than Gordons domestic popularity!

Indeed if the Taliban run in the next British election they will probably beat labour!!!!!!!
 
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giglets

Member
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Good evening Saoirse,

I think you will find that the 8% figure is accurate, as I believe it came from the same poll, although I couldn't find it myself.

I also believe the poll concerned was independant and above board - probably not the case with the one produced by our Russian cousins.

Annoying when some Afghani opinion conflicts with your own unbiased assessment?

Don't shoot the messenger!

Also, if you have more recent, relevant info, please share it.




Dave
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Dave I will explain this to you as simply as I can

Picture it

You have a war ravaged country with a particularly unsavoury group (as viewed by the West) fighting it out with a mass of foreign invaders who have slaughtered and butchered civilians as well as their enemy just like the Taliban

One day instead of your door being kicked in by Johnny foreigner and you and your family (at best) beaten and arrested he asks you do you support our enemy?

Are you getting the drift here Dave? These polls are not exactly going to get a truthful reponse (if they are even actually carried out)

When things were going hammer and tongs here we had the great and the good going up and down the Falls asking "local opinion". They would quiz the locals about who they supported etc and trot back off to their hotels to arm the NIO, Newsnight and the like with the latest poll showing these "bad guys" had no support.

We literally used to roar with laughter when we read or watched the "latest poll" evidence being trotted out for the British public to consume. One such poll I remember well showed that "people on the ground are sick of the shinners and will give Gerry a bloody nose at the next election. Result soon after-West Belfast Adams 87%!

What I am trying to highlight is that in a very hostile and tinderbox envioroment even if a poll is actually held when lives are at stake you often tell the pollsters what they want to hear. I know we did for years
 

giglets

Member
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Ok Philip,

If you hold all polls of Afghanis to be either biased or incompetent, who exactly are we going to believe, when trying to judge what real Afghanis think?

Give us a realistic alternative.

Otherwise you are merely giving your own personal opinion, valuable though that is, which isn't of much real use.


Dave
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Dave I am only highlighting the fact that people in such a situation arent gonna be very forth comming

I hasten to add in the Taliban controlled areas exactly the same applies. If quizzed on your political views by one of those blood thirsty neandrathals you would be pretty game to reply "well put me down as an undecided!"
 

giglets

Member
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Totally depends on how poll was conducted - privacy/anonimity/representative of population demographics etc.....

If it was done properly and, allowing for accepted margins for error, I, personally, think that it is probably one of the only reasonably reliable ways to judge the public mood.

I am also happy to accept the stated opinion of the Afghani population, whatever that might be, rather than second-guess it from the UK, Ireland or Turkey.


Dave
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
It is a difficult thing to judge

Historically there is a justified mistrust of foreigners and I would be most sceptical of what was being told to those conducting polls and even more sceptical of how it is presented by those commissioning the polls

I think a reality check is called for.I mean do you really think if the west carried out a poll and it said the locals wanted them to get the hell out of their country Gordon would rush to publish the findings!

A well respected journalist here always said polls in these situations must come with a large health warning!
 
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giglets

Member
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Accept all of your caviats, Phillip.

Still doesn't detract from my main point, though.

And, as far as Gordy-Boy managing to control anything to do with press releases - Yeah, he's really made a good job of that so far, hasn't he!


Anyway, I think this has drifted a little from topic and can feel hot breath on my neck from someone looking over my shoulder (lol!!!), so I'm through on this one, bud!

See ya,


Dave
 

SuperBogs

I miss you Pebble
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
Philip, this unsavoury group you talk about isn't just viewed that way by the west as you try to insinuate that it's only the west. Look at all the countries that are fighting the taliban. Give me a list of countries that support the Taliban please. You also make it seem like the foreign invaders are strickly there to murder, rape and pillage. These people are NOT like the Taliban. Do you think that soldiers from Ireland are just walking up an booting down doors and beating up who ever they see before cutting them into little pieces (slaughtered & butchered) was your description. You sense of judgement amazes me. If you witnesed someone being questioned in Afganistan your report would say they were tortured, beaten and then murdered in a slow painful death. War is not a charity ball. Because these terrorists use infants, children and women not only as walking bombs but also as shields. They do this as they are worthless cowards. "OUR" soldiers are dieing every day attempting to make "OUR" world a safer place and your outrageous depiction that "OUR" soldiers are simply savages is very disturbing. Your belief is for all foreigners to evacuate Afganistan and then what? Allow a free for all for the Taliban to regroup and be stronger then ever? Westerners, everyone for that fact don't want ANY war to continue. But it basically comes down to this, it's better to be fighting your enemy on his ground then have the fight brought to yours as any non Taliban in the mind of the Taliban is nothing more then a target for their next bullet or child bomb. I thank the soldiers that are giving all they are to keep "OUR" countries at a much lesser risk of danger and innocent deaths because they are containing it in the enemies backyard.

Philip, if the Taliban were not cowards and completely void of human values they wouldn't force "OUR" soldiers to have to consider children, dogs, infants,etc as hazards of life. They would not have to appear ruthless but may at times only appear this way as a means of self preservation. If the civilians don't cooperate in their searches for the Taliban (who could be hiding under some old womans dress) then it appears "OUR" soldiers have crossed the line. They need to make sure THEY and THEIR fellow soldiers are safe, that's priority one. Sure civilian casualties happen in every war. Every possible method available is used to minimize these from happening, they don't go in and slaughter and butcher indiscriminately like you say.

Bob
 
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Saoirse

Moderator
Remember the shoe bomber.!!
You have a very naive view of these sort of conflict situations if you think its a clear cut good guys bad guys situation for those whose country is occupied

I have no idea where you get this idea that this debacle which is doomed to failure will result in western countries being safer. The vast majority of people in the west do not support this nonsense anymore

I can assure you those who occupy Afghanistan are certainly not doing it in my name
 

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