ceemac

Shake It Baby...
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
I've just been following the trial against Tahir Daştanoğlu that started at the Bakırköy Court House in Istanbul yesterday. Daştanoğlu supposedly killed his 28-year-old wife Dilek Daştanoğlu because she wanted a divorce. Dilek Daştanoğlu worked as a nurse in the Neurology Department of the Istanbul Bakırköy Hospital for Mental and Neurological Diseases.

Unjustifiable provocation is the defence being put forward by the murderer.

As someone from a Christian background, I find it very difficult to even comprehend these crimes against women, and they're not just confined to the poor or uneducated, or Turkey for that matter.

Here's a couple of very good articles (in relation to Turkey), which give some insight into this despicable tradition, and the 'new' rising trend of 'honour suicide'.

Arabs and Muslims Against “Honour” Crimes Turkey


C
 

carolk

R.I.P
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
I wonder where the term 'Honour Killings' came from, perhaps someone can enlighten me? Have always thought it sounds like a made up term by a man to do what he likes with women.

'Ego Killings' more likely to me. If your spouse wants a divorce surely your ego maybe dented, not your honour!!
 

Susan T

Member
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
An honor killing (also called a customary killing) is the murder of a family or clan member by one or more fellow family members, where the murderers (and potentially the wider community) believe the victim to have brought dishonor upon the family, clan, or community. This perceived dishonor is normally the result of (a) utilizing dress codes unacceptable to the family (b) wanting out of an arranged marriage or choosing to marry by own choice or (c) engaging in certain sexual acts. These killings result from the perception that defense of honor justifies killing a person whose behavior dishonors their clan or family.

Well, that's the dictionary definition and it goes on to say that this happens in countries where the women are seen as 'vessels' for men........ Not all murders are men .....unbelievably it could be the women's female relatives, even their own mother !!!

So, guess he's claiming that she brought 'dishonour' upon him.... but have to agree with Carol the term 'ego killing' seems more apt.
 

Tess

Member
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
Utter Domination and Ego, it just beggers belief, how you could kill or force your own flesh and blood to accept death as 'justification' for so called dishonour.
 

Susan T

Member
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
Worrying though Crash tester, not all honor killings are related to marriage issues so your theory would not stop them. Furthermore, where countries are bringing in severe penalties for honor killings to try and stop them, as before an 'honor killing' would attract a lighter sentence, there seems to be an increase in 'honor suicides' ...... women it appears will always pay the ultimate price for men's false ego,

I have inserted a link related to Turkey as this particular thread is about a Turkish 'honor killing' , but by no means do I infer that this is happening only here.

Women told: 'You have dishonoured your family, please kill yourself' - Europe, World - The Independent
 

alison09400

Moderator
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
In turkish this is called "Töre" ....after the killing they'll say "namusumuzu temizledik" which basically means "we cleansed our honour". On the news last night it featured a report about a man from the east of the country who was in Istanbul looking for his wife who'd fled her home as she feared for her life as she wanted a divorce. The man and one of her children were seen walking along Istiklal Caddesi with a small photograph of the wife hoping someone will know her. The reporter then said that two of the woman's brothers were also out looking for her but it was to kill her.

There is also "Kan Davası" which is when two families or two factions of one family are at odds with eachother. For example, someone gets murdered..the family of the person murdered then kills someone from the family of the murderer, then that family will again kill someone from the family of the first person murdered. All very confusing but very common in this country. The word Kan is the turkish word for blood..and in this context is used when "two bloods" are fighting eachother.
 
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
I actually thought honour killings were only to do with a woman having a relationship with a man from an ethnic or tribal group not approved by her family. I didn't know that trying to get a divorce was also a 'ground' (if indeed there could be any grounds for such a thing) for such murders.
Although this kind of thing nearly always applies only to village Turks or Kurds, more liberal Turks also don't want to divorce even if they are unhappy. This causes much unhappiness to the people involved and for anyone who might later fall in love with someone who wants to divorce but daren't.
 
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
Töre cinayeti or namus cinayeti have their roots in cultural beliefs more than religion ..it also happens among Sikh communties.
The killing is usually a family decision and females are as much a part of the decision as the men, since they too have been brought up with the good name of the family tantamount to their standing in the community as a whole.
İn Turkey its mainly in the Eastern part of the country and mainly among Kurdish people who originate in the East.
Recently in the Uk a woman accused her husband in open court of killing their daughter 10 years ago..the girl had formed a relationship with a man who was Alevi and came from the same area of Turkey.. the girls family were Kurdish Sunni so the match was a disgrace to the family.
Just this week in Somalia a man was stoned to death for adultry..the woman is pregnant and they will wait until the birth before killing her in the same way.
İn İran people regularily get stoned for adultry..men and women.
 

KKOB

Completely Chillaxed
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
It doesn't matter what they're called, whether it's "Honour Killings" in the UK, Europe, Turkey, the Middle East etc or "Kitchen Accidents" that seem to occur far more often than it would seem rationally possible in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh etc. until the mindset of these people who "support" it is changed, murders will continue to be swept under the carpet.
 

tallulah

Member
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
There is no Honour in this practice. It's just another way for some men to enforce their will and domination over women. It's a shameful practice and I think when they end up in court they should recieve the stiffest punishment. It has to be seen that this sort of crime has no place in a civalised society. Just my opinion...
 

kelchocolate

Just Watch Me
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
Watched a programme on channel 4 , about honour killings in Turkey.One of the stories was about young woman who was killed by her husband made me cry. Close family and friends knew he killed her and his excuse was because she was unfaithful.The family of the slain lady say it all a pack of lies. It was just a few months since their daughter and sister got married and she confided in her family about her husband not been able to do what married couples do.They carried out an autopsy and the findings came back she was a virgin.Her family are still fighting for justice.He had killed his wife just because he was ashamed if she would divorce him on that grounds.
 

Susan T

Member
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
This crime has no place in civilized society but unfortunately it is centuries old and as one poster has already said until the mindset of these people can be changed then it is something which will undoubtedly contine, Stiffer penalities in themselves are not enough as we have already read there unfortunately seems to be a trend towards 'honor suicides' different scenario, same terrible conclusion.

What I would like to add is , where is the 'honor' of a person that fllees the scene after the crime, where is the 'honor' in coercing someone into taking their own life so that they may escape punishment themselves. There is no honor here only cowardice .....if they were truely honorable then they would face the consequences of their own convictions.

There is no 'honor' in taking someones life or pressurizing someone to take their own.
 

carolk

R.I.P
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
The explanations are only what I thought really, harking back to the days when women were chattel! I do accept that women are involved in this decision making process but I still think it stems from being owned by a man be it father/daughter husband/wife.

I would say they are the most dishonourable people, among the worst type of murderers!!
 
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
İ agree with you there Carolk.....its merciless and fear plays a big part.
At the core of it is ignorance and lack of education, ...and a Government that does little to change things.
 

Susan T

Member
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
There IS honor ....but that belongs to the victims not the perpetrators. So many of them have died because they have refused to accept what was expected/demanded of them by an outdated patriarchal culture.
The media may have made us more aware of 'honor killings and suicides' but there is no doubt that it is on the increase ...why? because it is also through the media that women are beginning to question and fight for their rights within societies that have previously held them in such low esteem i.e they are a possession rather than a person in their own right, with thoughts, dreams and expecations etc. Many of these women have known what their fate would be, many have chosen to die rather than submit ... they fought for freedom but have paid the ultimate price .....they are our modern day Emily Pankhursts & other such womens activists ...... God/Allah bless them, they deserve to be honored & respected.

As an afterthought.... I have often wondered about certain muslim countries banning (or trying,because they are not really succeeding) sites on the internet, is that to protect their youths in general or, now I am asking the question in my head ......is the intention partly to prevent their women from accessing these sites in case they begin questioning the male dominated societies in which they live.
 
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magpie

magpie
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
As others have said , what has honour got to do with ordinary, plain murder?
 

zuberdust

IM THE BESTEST :)
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
if your christian, it doesnt matter! honour killings is not a religious thing or in any way related to islam.... so its shocking for every1, no matter race or religion!
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
if your christian, it doesnt matter! honour killings is not a religious thing or in any way related to islam.... so its shocking for every1, no matter race or religion!


Well I'm not sure about it not being an Islamic thing Zuber, but it most certainly is an exclusively Muslim thing.

Family honour is a core value of Arab society, and if a woman does anything from speaking to an unrelated man, to rumoured loss of virginity before marriage, to refusing a forced marriage, to extra-marital affair, to being raped, this can be taken as a stain on or destroying family honour.

Therefore, the victim is killed by family member(s) to protect or maintain the family's honour. Usually if brought to book, the perpretrators get very light sentences as they say they are merely following directives set down in their Islamic ethical beliefs.


c
 

zuberdust

IM THE BESTEST :)
No Honour in 'Honour Killings'
Well I'm not sure about it not being an Islamic thing Zuber, but it most certainly is an exclusively Muslim thing.

Family honour is a core value of Arab society, and if a woman does anything from speaking to an unrelated man, to rumoured loss of virginity before marriage, to refusing a forced marriage, to extra-marital affair, to being raped, this can be taken as a stain on or destroying family honour.

Therefore, the victim is killed by family member(s) to protect or maintain the family's honour. Usually if brought to book, the perpretrators get very light sentences as they say they are merely following directives set down in their Islamic ethical beliefs.


c

no. its a cultural thing!.... indians do stuff like that who r not muslim! black africans do stuff like that who r not muslim and so on..... its not anything to do with religion! its culture! and groups
 

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