SuperBogs

I miss you Pebble
Muslims Vs Islamists
That is an excellent read Craig, thanks. I never really sat back and thought much about much. I have to admit that I have never really felt uncomfortable that my life was ever at any risk because of some extremist as you really don't see that in Turkey. This article explains basically why. I also have to say I am not completely comfortable travelling to any country that is know to have Islamic extremists, which would be reasonable to feel that way I suppose. I am very happy the people of Turkey are Muslim and NOT Islamists.

Bob
 

SuperBogs

I miss you Pebble
Muslims Vs Islamists
This might explain how real Muslims can't understand how these Islamic extremists can say they are doing what Allah has directed them to do. It would make alot of sense to me if this indeed were the case. It would especially help the westeners understand that it's not Muslim extremists that are being the terrorists but Islamic extremists. If everyone knew this they wouldn't be painting all musllims with the same tainted brush as they do the Islamic terrorists.

Bob
 

giglets

Member
Muslims Vs Islamists
I believe most right-thinking Westerners already know that terrorist acts are carried out by committed Islamists, rather than orndinary Muslims.

If the article is correct, we can only hope that this internal battle for hearts and minds is won by the "good-guys".

If not, the consequences would be dire.



Dave
 

Lemonhead

Devil's Advocacy LLC
Muslims Vs Islamists
This might explain how real Muslims can't understand how these Islamic extremists can say they are doing what Allah has directed them to do. It would make alot of sense to me if this indeed were the case. It would especially help the westeners understand that it's not Muslim extremists that are being the terrorists but Islamic extremists. If everyone knew this they wouldn't be painting all musllims with the same tainted brush as they do the Islamic terrorists.

Bob

Good point Bob. That single point in particular has been a popular discussion topic lately and Turkey can so easily be thrown under the bus for it's Muslim label. This draws a very clear picture of how easy it is to confuse.

Excellent find C! Definitely a very good read for those of us that aren't very fluent with the Muslim/Islamist differences. Thanks for sharing news on the "happier" side of things.
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
Muslims Vs Islamists
This might explain how real Muslims can't understand how these Islamic extremists can say they are doing what Allah has directed them to do. It would make alot of sense to me if this indeed were the case. It would especially help the westeners understand that it's not Muslim extremists that are being the terrorists but Islamic extremists. If everyone knew this they wouldn't be painting all musllims with the same tainted brush as they do the Islamic terrorists.

Bob

Nail on the head....


C
 
Muslims Vs Islamists
This might explain how real Muslims can't understand how these Islamic extremists can say they are doing what Allah has directed them to do. It would make alot of sense to me if this indeed were the case. It would especially help the westeners understand that it's not Muslim extremists that are being the terrorists but Islamic extremists. If everyone knew this they wouldn't be painting all musllims with the same tainted brush as they do the Islamic terrorists.

Bob

Islam is really only about promoting what is good and deflecting evil. These concepts are well defined in The Quraan and as God is Perfect so are Muslims expected to strive for perfection, to the extent that this is possible for mere humans.

For example we are expected to speak the truth, to care for our fellow humans, to counter act oppression, to care about the environment etc. Man made Hadith, purportedly reports of the sayings and actions of the Prophet Mohammed, have introduced a great number of, often contradictory rules and regulations, which frequently go against the Quraan.

However the Holy Book declares itself to be complete and to contain all that we need to know to live as righteous people and, as God is the sole Creator His rules alone are valid. :croc:
 

SuperBogs

I miss you Pebble
Muslims Vs Islamists
I believe most right-thinking Westerners already know that terrorist acts are carried out by committed Islamists, rather than orndinary Muslims.

If the article is correct, we can only hope that this internal battle for hearts and minds is won by the "good-guys".

If not, the consequences would be dire.



Dave

Actually Dave, from the media we see in North America we see the two as the same, for the most part. All we hear is "Islamic terrorists attack again and are doing it for Alluh, the leader of all Muslim" That's just an example but you get the point. Most people in North America don't follow what happenes here in the middle waes as close as we do. To them it's a world away and they can't in the least comprehend why these things are happening.

Bob

However the Holy Book declares itself to be complete and to contain all that we need to know to live as righteous people and, as God is the sole Creator His rules alone are valid. :croc:

I believe or assume your talking about the Turkish print version of the Koran, correct?

Bob
 
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SuperBogs

I miss you Pebble
Muslims Vs Islamists
Any Quraan, apart from comments , which of course are not a part of the actual Quranic text.

Did you read the link that Craig posted? The point is that there are several different variances. My wife says that everyone thinks theres is the real one....lol. My question is time frame. The Arabic Koran directs hatred towards Jews and westerners but Westeners ( I asume they mean Americans) have not been around all that long, historically speak that is. That being said, is this hatred Koran a recent write?

Bob
 
Muslims Vs Islamists
Did you read the link that Craig posted? The point is that there are several different variances. My wife says that everyone thinks theres is the real one....lol. My question is time frame. The Arabic Koran directs hatred towards Jews and westerners but Westeners ( I asume they mean Americans) have not been around all that long, historically speak that is. That being said, is this hatred Koran a recent write?

Bob

The text in all translated Quraans is basically the same, although the translation of odd words may vary, as Arabic words have many possible meanings. The comments are like an appendix, generally written by the translator. They are NOT a part of the Quraan.

It's very wrong to claim that the Quraan directs hatred against Jews and Westerners. :wow: It speaks, in part, to Jews and criticizes them for not adhering to their covenant with God, much as does the Torah (Old testament). Also it warns the Christians not to believe in God as a Trinity, which is an insult to Him as He is One and all others are His servants.
 

SuperBogs

I miss you Pebble
Muslims Vs Islamists
The text in all translated Quraans is basically the same, although the translation of odd words may vary, as Arabic words have many possible meanings. The comments are like an appendix, generally written by the translator. They are NOT a part of the Quraan.

It's very wrong to claim that the Quraan directs hatred against Jews and Westerners. :wow: It speaks, in part, to Jews and criticizes them for not adhering to their covenant with God, much as does the Torah (Old testament). Also it warns the Christians not to believe in God as a Trinity, which is an insult to Him as He is One and all others are His servants.

I understand what your saying but that's not what is being said in C's initial post.

Bob
 

ukizook

Member
Muslims Vs Islamists
The Arabic Koran directs hatred towards Jews and westerners but Westeners ( I asume they mean Americans) have not been around all that long, historically speak that is. That being said, is this hatred Koran a recent write?

Bob

Why should you asume that ? it was the Europeans that it is directed to. (though the Yanks have upset the apple cart more in the last 50 yrs or so.
 
Muslims Vs Islamists
Since the 'known world' in the 7th century was not very big...it was a directive to all non believers..(wherever they were from) nothing to do with any single country.
 

saffie

Saffie
Muslims Vs Islamists
I would love to see an article like this published in the Uk newspapers. If nothing else,it might improve relations and lead to a better understanding of exactly who is who instead of all the mostly gentle Muslim population being pilloried as people to be scared/wary of.



saffie
 

ukizook

Member
Muslims Vs Islamists
Since the 'known world' in the 7th century was not very big...it was a directive to all non believers..(wherever they were from) nothing to do with any single country.

But the Crusaders came from "the west" and the holy war "Jihad" has been directed to the west ever since. In the last few centuries the term "Western" has changed it's meaning and is more of an ideal/outlook rather than a geographic place.
 
Muslims Vs Islamists
But the Crusaders came from "the west" and the holy war "Jihad" has been directed to the west ever since.

Jihad is probably the most misunderstood term in existance. Let me enlighten you as to its meaning. Jihad means "striving" and not war; war in Arabic being "Harb". There are "the Greater Jihad"=The striving to improve oneself, and "the lesser Jihad"=Self defence when your country is under attack.

There can be no aggressive Jihad, as this is prohibited in Islam, ""God does not like the aggressors"". What we have seen are Imperialist wars, which had nothing to do with Islam, but were in fact conducted in disobedience to Islam. :slapme:
 

giglets

Member
Muslims Vs Islamists
goran,

Problem is that term "jihad" has been used extensively by extremists to mean aggression, or worse.
It is now inextricably linked to islamic fundamentalism, because of the context in which it has been used.



Dave
 

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