ceemac

Shake It Baby...
Muslim Issues
Do you think it's fair and reasonable that we discuss topical Muslim issues in the forum?

There are all shades of opinion here and I know some are uncomfortable that controversial views are expressed by people who own a home in a Muslim country.

Personally, buying a Turkish home has opened my eyes to another culture, way of life and I'm truly glad of that. Ignorance of something only leads to mistrust, suspicion, and all too often, violence.

I often wonder what Turkish members or guests to the forum would make of some of our attitudes, opinions and beliefs.

I would hope we'd never ever offend our Turkish hosts, and I just wonder sometimes if this is the correct vehicle to discuss delicate issues of which many of us have little or no knowledge or experience?


C
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Muslim Issues
That's a fair point and it's incumbent on us therefore to be aware not to pursue any line which our hosts may find particularly offensive
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
Muslim Issues
the muslim members of the forum have added to my understanding of the muslim culture, and i thank them for that, most have contributed to debates and questions about their culture,
so yes i think it is fair to have an open and honest forum that includes us all.

martin
 

Guz1

Member
Muslim Issues
Probably no harm in it, although most of us can only give an outsider's perspective because we don't know enough about Islam.

Don't think, however, that we can have a free and open discussion on some matters pertaining to Turkey. The thread about the author being prosecuted in Turkey springs to mind. No point participating in a discussion where only one side of the argument is allowed.
 

Robert

Member
Muslim Issues
Perhaps we are being over sensitive here. I have debated all kinds of issuses with my Turkish friends, sometimes in quite robust fashion and I don't think I have lost a friend yet. You will always get a tiny minority who can,t get their head round the concept of free speech.
I think its a matter of having mutual respect, surley we can have a difference of view without being offensive or calling names.:blowkiss:
 

teosgirl

Member
Muslim Issues
I became active in this forum due to the diverse opinions aired and willingness to debate. I agree with both ceemac and saoirse, honest debate without intention to cause offense should be allowed.

Charlotte
 
Muslim Issues
İ think thats its realistic that we can discuss Muslim issues as they are relevant and affect us when we live here.
the problems we can run into and must be careful with is when dicussing Turkey ...as there are laws ....301 of the constitution... which makes it a punishable offence with a custodial sentence of 6 months to 3 years if you insult Turkey or Turkish ethnicity or Turkey's institutions.
 
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teosgirl

Member
Muslim Issues
shirleyanntr,
what's 301 of the constitution? I'm going to take a guess that it's something to do with insulting Turkishness?

Charlotte
 

giglets

Member
Muslim Issues
Ignorance of something only leads to mistrust, suspicion, and all too often, violence.


C[/QUOTE]



Could't agree more!
Even allowing for discretion in a few sensitive areas, this Forum is a superb vehicle for cross-cultural communication.
I reckon that, if there was more interaction, such as we have here, you could scrap a lot of our Diplomatic Missions, Embassies etc... as they seem to be far behind the up-to-date information which we have at our fingertips.
Ordinary people talking to ordinary people will always beat "posh farts" pontificating all day long!!

Keep on posting, folks!




Dave
 

Robert

Member
Muslim Issues
İ think thats its realistic that we can discuss Muslim issues as they are relevant and affect us when we live here.
the problems we can run into and must be careful with is when dicussing Turkey ...as there are laws ....301 of the constitution... which makes it a punishable offence with a custodial sentence of 6 months to 3 years if you insult Turkey or Turkish ethnicity or Turkey's institutions.

With respect, I think this was ammended last year.
 
Muslim Issues
hi Robert it was amended..not taken off the books..
Before amendments were made to Article 301 on April 30, 2008, the article stated the following:[8]

A person who publicly denigrates Turkishness, the Republic or the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and three years.
A person who publicly denigrates the Government of the Republic of Turkey, the judicial institutions of the State, the military or security organizations shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and two years.
In cases where denigration of Turkishness is committed by a Turkish citizen in another country the punishment shall be increased by one third.
Expressions of thought intended to criticize shall not constitute a crime.


this is the amended part
On April 30, 2008, article 301 was amended by the Parliament of Turkey, with the following changes:[28]

replacement of the word "Turkishness" with the phrase "Turkish nation" (in the phrase "insulting Turkishness").
reduction of the maximum penalty from three years to two.
requiring permission of the justice minister to file a case. The permission procedure of Article 301 will be carried out by the Directorate General of the Criminal Affairs of the Ministry of Justice where competent judges are seconded to the Ministry. Even if a criminal investigation is launched upon the permission of the Minister of Justice, the prosecutor still has discretionary power to decide not to prosecute. Such a decision was made in the July 2008 case against İbrahim Tığ, the editor of the daily Bölge Haber.[29][30] The governor of
 

Akasya

Postless Pointer
Muslim Issues
I think that it is great that disenfranchised Muslims in Turkey have the opportunity via this hallowed portal to openly discuss " their genuine expressions of thought " as a way and means of ensuring that they do not fall foul of the Turkish constitution.....

Steve.
 
Muslim Issues
I think that it is great that disenfranchised Muslims in Turkey have the opportunity via this hallowed portal to openly discuss " their genuine expressions of thought " as a way and means of ensuring that they do not fall foul of the Turkish constitution.....

Steve.

Really?
By "openly" I guess you mean using an avatar not their real name? Not QUITE open then.
 
Muslim Issues
Don't contemplate too much, this is your site, this is where you give your honest opinions... Everyone has a right to their own opinion, till others change it :)
 

giglets

Member
Muslim Issues
Really?
By "openly" I guess you mean using an avatar not their real name? Not QUITE open then.


Dwight,

Can't really see the connection with having an open and comprehensive debate and avatars (or not).
I have an avatar simply because it suits me to have one.
If I used my name, which would mean nothing to probably everyone on this Forum, how exactly would it make me "more open" in my contributions.
I seem to remember this subject (avatars) being touched-on in the recent past, with the vast majority of members reflecting my feelings on the matter.
It is nothing more than a "red herring" in the overall scheme of things and not worth further discussion, IMO.
Anyway, how do I know that Dwight Long is really your true name??




Dave
 

egemencoskun

New Member
Muslim Issues
hi Robert it was amended..not taken off the books..
Before amendments were made to Article 301 on April 30, 2008, the article stated the following:[8]

A person who publicly denigrates Turkishness, the Republic or the Grand National Assembly of Turkey, shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and three years.
A person who publicly denigrates the Government of the Republic of Turkey, the judicial institutions of the State, the military or security organizations shall be punishable by imprisonment of between six months and two years.
In cases where denigration of Turkishness is committed by a Turkish citizen in another country the punishment shall be increased by one third.
Expressions of thought intended to criticize shall not constitute a crime.


this is the amended part
On April 30, 2008, article 301 was amended by the Parliament of Turkey, with the following changes:[28]

replacement of the word "Turkishness" with the phrase "Turkish nation" (in the phrase "insulting Turkishness").
reduction of the maximum penalty from three years to two.
requiring permission of the justice minister to file a case. The permission procedure of Article 301 will be carried out by the Directorate General of the Criminal Affairs of the Ministry of Justice where competent judges are seconded to the Ministry. Even if a criminal investigation is launched upon the permission of the Minister of Justice, the prosecutor still has discretionary power to decide not to prosecute. Such a decision was made in the July 2008 case against İbrahim Tığ, the editor of the daily Bölge Haber.[29][30] The governor of
Article 301 is about Turkish nation and its values and I do not think that talking about religions is regarded to this article or any other article in Turkish law as Turkey is not a Muslim country in force with law and as far as I know there is no other article about religion in Turkish law apart from that states every Turkish citizen is free to chose their religion when they are in awareness of this decision.
So I think it is completely fine to talk about religions such as Islam in Turkey as long as our opinions are not offensive but useful. And also it could greatly help people who don’t know much about Islam, to understand Islam or any other religion.
Islam is the last religion and the Prophet the last prophet, not to be followed by another revelation from heaven. And also the Qur'an indicates that Muhammad was sent as a mercy and messenger of God to all nations: "We have sent thee not, but as a mercy to all creatures."
As far as its fundamental message, the religion of Jesus was not different from Islam.
I think so far it is enough about Islam. I will be back soon.
 

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