Himmycats

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Dear fellows,

Can anyone answer my question and quiery as I am left in the dark re the following issue, I read in places one thing, and I am having second doubts as my Sales agreement is not notarised. I need a second opinion and guidance from you people who already bought a place in Turkey.

Here we go -

1st

I have read that a sales agreement made at a Solicitor (in my case the one whom I trust and the one whom I chose) and this agreement has not been neither notarised and on the other hand I am being told that it is not to be notarised. SHOULD THIS HAVE TO BE NOTARISED OR NOT? In my country we go to a NOTARY to do the sales agreement and automatically it is notarised. Is it true if problems occur, the sales agreement if not notarised is not legal.

2nd

Military clearance which we are waiting for comes out, waht happens then? When the rest of money is paid, wait for the little fairy to bring you the TAPU in your name? OR Automatically that same day you go to TAPU office with the Owner, he transfer is to your name and vuola, you have it in same day you make payment?

Thanks everyone, I know you will give lots of precious answers as you have always done - Wish you a nice evening and nice weekend
 

juco

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Himmycats,

You dont need to post `again` so quickly after all it is the weekend and they will all be settling down to xfactor (god forbid)

Anyhow as far as I am aware it has to be notorised to be legal, others will confirm this. If it has question the integrety of your lawyer!

You must at the first opportunity try and check if the military clearance has been applied for do not rely on a solicitor or anyone else say it has been done.
As far as I can remember once you get clearance they apply for Tapu, again check this has been done, ask for the application number and check at the local office.
 

Mushtaq

Founding Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
The sales contract should be notarise, because that is the only legal document recognised my the courts, although if you have problems other documents and non-notorised sales contracts can be submitted but they do not qualify as legal documents (hope I have not confused you further).

Bottom line is Notarise documents to make them stand up in a court of law.

When your Military Clearance comes, you go to the TAPU office and get the tapu changed into your name, and hand over the money, so give with one hand and take with the other, that's how I have done it in the past.
 
L

les&Tasha

Guest
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Himmycats.

As usual Mushtaq has given you the correct advice. I am just adding some details!

If the sales contract has already been signed. It cannot just be taken to the Notar and stamped. The buyer, seller and agent must go to the Notar with ID and sign the document at the Notar's The contract is then legally enforcable. If you have returned to UK this is a problem...

The action you should take depends on how much money you have parted with. If it is just a 10% deposit I would sit tight and demand a notorised photocopy of the application for the military permission. Just wait until the military permission is given.

If you have paid a larger sum then I would do two things (belt and braces LOL).

First, go back to Turkey and DEMAND the sales contract is notorised. Second demand that the money you have paid is registered as a debt on the Tapu (Ipotek). This can be done at the Tapu Cadestre and will cost around 1000 TL. This safeguards your money and ensures that the Tapu cannot be transferred or mortgaged without clearing the registered debt.

When the military permission comes through you should go to Turkey and attend the Tapu Cadestre in person. They will provide an official translator (who you must pay). The Tapu transfer, Taxes, fees, earthquake insurance and your payment of the balance all take place the same day. Try to avoid paying large sums in cash. Bank transfer to the bank account of the Tapu owner is the best option.

Hope this helps.

Les
 
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juco

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Good info from Les & Mushtaq, but again (and I repeat) I would question how dependable your lawyer is if he is:-

A steering you away from legalising the transaction.
B Never suggested you did all this in the first place.

Personally, and this is only my opinion, I would get rid of the lawyer and make it clear as to why! I say this because it appears he has left you wide open to be conned.
 

Mushtaq

Founding Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
I have noticed that in Turkey majority of lawyers that I have come across are reluctant to notarise sales contracts, I don't know the reasons but that's what I have found in the past, and had to confirm with Cem on the forum about the legality of un-notarised contracts and he confirmed that they are virtually useless unless notarised.

Maybe it's because they don't actually add much value to the sale process, and you could just as well agree the terms and do the whole thing cheaper with the help of an official translator and the notary?
 

carolk

R.I.P
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Mushtaq, we came across this recently and the cost to notarize a property sale is a % of the property so, different from other things and builders usually don't want to pay/share that cost and they have to agree it.
 
Military clearance, tapu - one question
HI
when we bought our property we were very naive about the whole process and were about to be taken to the cleaners by the estate agent but were saved by a Turkish friend called Erol who heard what was happening and called in his friend caled Halit that he went to University with this little man saved our bacon and a lot of money! if you would like his details let me know, he itemised everything on his bill including how much he had to use to bribe the council, this man by the way is a lawyer based in Ankara, was the estae agent pissed off when he turned up within 24 hours or what, it was like the O.K. coral in Bodrum outside the notary office
 
L

les&Tasha

Guest
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Carol,

You are correct on the Notar costs. It is expensive but the builder must pay half. Quite simply it is - No Notar, No money!

HarryandLiz,

Yes, it is amazing how the shysters vanish when you mention the Notar and going to the Tapu cadestre to register a debt on the Tapu...

A lot of people pretend to be emlaks but are not licensed. If the sales contract is signed at the Notar they will have problems claiming commission as the Noter will ask for their license...
 

Himmycats

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
THANKS everyone for all your support, and sorry for the late post since I was pretty busy this week.

The solicitor have sent me an explanation and I would like to share this with you guys.

The purchasing contract or "promise of sale contract" yes it is legal, if presented in court, and this though as you guys have stated it does not protect the promise of sale if something crops up, but it protects the deposit paid and in my case since we did a contract with penalties for each broken clause. Please do bear that the penalty is much of a big sum of money almost double the deposit I paid.

The solicitor has guided me to do this way, because the deposit paid was quite low and therefor the notarzing of the contract would have not made any sense and therefor in few simple words if one presents a good contract with alot of penalties in the buyers favour, it saves one the 1000YTL from notarizing plus the other expense to denote it in the Title deed office. The sellers if they fail in anyone of the clauses, okay I will not get the place, but I can say with 6 clauses, let say they break half of them, I can go on an early retirement, and believe me guys if the house/builder would have something not in place sith such a contract, they would not even dare sign it.

Last one for Mustaq is that yes I have it in the contract that when the TAPU is in my name, then we will proceed with the payment.

Thanks again everyone who have contributed in this thread.

Himmycats
 

jcrian

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
The sellers if they fail in anyone of the clauses, okay I will not get the place, but I can say with 6 clauses, let say they break half of them, I can go on an early retirement, and believe me guys if the house/builder would have something not in place sith such a contract, they would not even dare sign it.

If the seller has nothing, don't bank on retiring with any money you might get for broken penalty clauses. In fact I don't think anyone has posted that they have been successful getting any money from clauses in a broken contract.
 

val2661

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
My villa was over 12 months late and with 5,000 Euros per month penalty due to me, total owed was 60,000 Euros. Did I get it? NO of course I didn't, even though I threatened to invoke it, my solicitor turned into a chocolate teapot, bloody useless. I ended up having to pay £10,000 extra to the builder to get my Iskan. Penalty clauses in contracts are worthless in my opinion!!

Val
 

Himmycats

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Well jcrian,

As in poker and in any business, without a gamble you do not make any money! Just you have to make the right steps check the pros and cons, weigh each level of situation, and decide wether to give it a go or not.

What I can say, if we would have always noted each and every post in this and any other Turkish related forum, we would have never made this step.

We took the risk after weighing everything and we will see hopefully in the begining of next year, when we will be longing to sunbathe in our private pool area, which what I could say, it would be impossible for us to do in any other part of Europe, where property prices are so much inflated.
 

Himmycats

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
val2661 I think you should publish your solicitors name, because for me this would be unacceptable!
 

Tess

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Himmycats, for my tuppence worth - take heed of the safeguards that have been explained to secure your dream!! Gamble - everyone loves a gamble, everyone wants to see the glass half full never half empty - BUT Himmycats, if you want my advice, cover yourself in every possible way and then cover some more. There are some very knowledgeable folks on here, heed them, Please!!!! If some of us had had a crystal ball or access to this forum prior to our purchases we would not be in the mess we are in now. I certainly would do things different, without a doubt! In my honest opinion you could not be well enough covered. Take care. x
 

juco

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
I agree with Tess, but I think you have made up your mind so wont add any more to the thread.
 
L

les&Tasha

Guest
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Himmycats,

You are mistaken in thinking that Turkish Avocats operate on the same "duty of care" principals as British solicitors. Completely different legal system. Do you realise that an avocate can take a share in the profits of a sale and not declare this interest to his client who is purchasing the property! Perfectly legal in Turkey!!

Unless the contract is notorised it is practically UNENFORCEABLE in court. An avocat may say otherwise whilst demanding money up front to sue the builder but in reality you will just waste further time and money. The developers know this only too well, they will agree to any penalty clauses you can think up. Once they have your money it is a different story...

I have no use whatsoever for avocats in property purchase but I know the system here in Turkey. The Notar is expensive. Getting an Ipotek is expensive, but these are only ways to safeguard your investment. I gave you sound advice upthread. Turkey is not UK...

Les
 

Sarahlou

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Have to say I agree with all the advice given and if Ihad had this advice nearly 4 years ago I would not be in the mess I am in now. My view would be if you can get your contract notarised you should do so (to hell with the cost) I have penalties written into my un-notarised contracts but as my builder does not have tupence I have very little chance of being able to claim the penalties for breach of contract. if it is the case that you have handed over only a very small deposit on your property then please do not hand over any more money to anyone until as others have told you, you are getting your tapu debt free into one hand then pay out with the other. That is the only way you can guarantee you will be safe.

Sarahlou
 

akbukowl

Member
Military clearance, tapu - one question
Penalty clauses you will be lucky,they will plead poverty ,threaten to go out of business anything rather than pay up.I say this from experience .
 

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