IanJones

Member
Is religion a crutch?
I have just been reading a thread where someone had taken offence to some comments about their religion and it got me thinking. It seems that Religion is a taboo subject unless you are a believer and talking to someone of the same faith.
It seems strange to me that people worship any gods in this day and age but even stranger that it seems to generate such aggression towards believers of a different faith.
Personally I have always wondered if faith is in some way a crutch to support you through life without having to face the fact that death is final. If I’m right then surely all religions have the same common goal.

Please dont use this to attack one religion or another. The question is simple is religion a way of not having to face death?
 

nomaderol

Member
Is religion a crutch?
first of all, this should be agreed. being a nonreligious person, all religious people whether muslim or christian or jewish or budhist, or etc have been attacking or applying community pressures directly or indirectly, but, when i say a word or two about their beliefs, they are inviting "respect" angels to pressure me again. how fair!, totally unfair... having said these...

lately, vatikan accepted human evolution indirectly. and we know what islam scholars say "god created everythings for you to research and find." So? these religion leaders are bending, have to be bending themselves cause they dont want to lose their positions and hence, their wealths? probably so. Accepting evolution theory even if it is indirectly means rejecting Adam and Eve theories which these jerussalem region originated religions are based on.

To me, very long time ago, say, 3000 years ago, there was a powerful king who claimed himself as god. he had a beautiful daughter whose name was Eve. King wanted her to marry to princess, Adam, of a neighbour small kingdom. In the mean time, there was a poor guy among ordinary folk of king. This poor guy approached the garden of king and thrown an apple to Eva (such gestures like throwing apples or stones were like giving roses to girls in old days.) Eva saw the poor guy and giggled at poor guy....love story, etc... after a while, poor guy kissed Eva. King and his slaves saw this, got angry and they stoned the poor guy by shouting "devil, satan, you cheated eva!" (hence, muslim still stones a symbolic devil building during hajj). Anyway, king had her daughter princess married to adam the prince of other kingdom and at the same time, he spreaded word "eva is innocent, devil cheated her." This word is still being spreaded even today. Even today, rich people do not want their daughters to marry poor guys.. Even today, when a rich father anywhere in the world sees his daughter with a poor guy he goes after the poor guy, catch and shout "dont stalk my daughter, you devil, you are cheating my daughter!"

This is the main story behind the religions. As the time passes, when these wealthy churches, mosques, synagogues, etc have to accept evolution theory, i wonder, how they will adopt this adam-eve theory to the evolution theory.
 

IanJones

Member
Is religion a crutch?
Well thanks Nomaderol but the question was really Do you think religion is a crutch. There are a thousand stories and im sure a thousand meanings but we could spend the rest of our lives debating them one by one.
 

parrot

Member
Is religion a crutch?
I have just been reading a thread where someone had taken offence to some comments about their religion and it got me thinking. It seems that Religion is a taboo subject unless you are a believer and talking to someone of the same faith.
It seems strange to me that people worship any gods in this day and age but even stranger that it seems to generate such aggression towards believers of a different faith.
Personally I have always wondered if faith is in some way a crutch to support you through life without having to face the fact that death is final. If I’m right then surely all religions have the same common goal.

Please dont use this to attack one religion or another. The question is simple is religion a way of not having to face death?
I tend to think that a lot of people use religion as a shield they can hide behind and not so much a case of not facing death but more afraid to face life.True life the run of the mill humdrum day to day existance not the happy clapping life they choose.
 

nomaderol

Member
Is religion a crutch?
my answer was within my post above.. crutch is a useful item, proven. religion? or religions? (note that there are more than 2000 religions on the earth now and there have been more than tousands of religions throughout the history.) are they useful? maybe so, maybe not, but this is certain that it is not a proven useful item. people are used to think the future. they dream darlings, then materials, etc etc. when they approach the grave, what shall they think about the future? next worlds. exists or not is another story, this hope of next world has been used/exploited by the powers of times who have been after wealths over and over.. they have become gods, prophets, etc etc. so, such blows can be crutches? maybe. but, if it is a personal thing. there is a good chinese proverb: pray is done alone, sex is done by two, etc. as long as people pray alone, it can be crutch, but, we know that religions are a social community things of this world, not next world, useful for few who make good money from religions, useless for majority. So, for minority, religions are crutches, for majority, not.
 
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giglets

Member
Is religion a crutch?
It is estimated that approx 5 billion, out of approx 6.7 billion World's population, are members of some type of religion.
If it is a crutch, it is certainly a well used one!

I was brought up in the Christian Faith, but am more of an agnostic, by nature.

Personally, I think that the older I get, the more comforting the thought of "the far country".


If I am ever going to need my crutch, it will definitely be at the very end of my life, rather than during it.



Dave
 
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nomaderol

Member
Is religion a crutch?
It is estimated that 5 billion, out of approx 6.7 billion World's population, are members of some type of religion.
Dave

Is this a real data? If they are counting automatically printed ID cards, then, ok. Otherwise, i estimate 1 billion of world population are members of some type of religion. Religious centers have been trying to keep their customers and they have always over-counted the numbers of them. Marketing strategy.
 

giglets

Member
Is religion a crutch?
Is this a real data? If they are counting automatically printed ID cards, then, ok. Otherwise, i estimate 1 billion of world population are members of some type of religion. Religious centers have been trying to keep their customers and they have always over-counted the numbers of them. Marketing strategy.


nomaderol,

Figures for members of religions were taken from Adherents.com site.
World population from Wikipedia.
Not sure about the accuracy of either.


Dave
 
Is religion a crutch?
Ian - nice to see you back!

As an old cynic with no religous belief whatever I have always admired the optimism of those who believe, whatever their faith. I think belief does support people but also seemingly allows them to take the moral high ground. I don't believe that religion itself causes war, but man's interpretation of it certainly does.
 
Is religion a crutch?
if religion..or belief in God (in whichever faith people adhere to)is a crutch then its a crutch im glad i have. İ dont need any particular religious sect to dictate my beliefs they are my own deep feelings.
İ think that many times on the forum those that believe in something have been referred to as ignorant or believing in fairies etc and this is intimidating to some so that they will not say their beliefs because they may be ridiculed.
İf i am ignorant because of my beliefs then so be it..i can take it
Going through all the ups and downs of my life and managing to survive i have found comfort in my 'crutch'
How anybody can believe that this universe we occupy a small part of is a random thing..well i find that ignorant ..but as they say 'when ignorance is bliss 'tis folly to be wise'

ps..im not lookng for an 'afterlife..' i'd miss too many of you lot hah
 
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Martyn

Member
Is religion a crutch?
It's not ignorant Shirley as well we all know. If religion comforts people in difficult times then that is good. Personally I don't need it and just believe there are too many people worrying about the next life rather than living this one. It does peeve me though when people say religion makes you a better person. I believe I am a good person with good values without it.
 

Xerox

BAA - but not sheepish!
Is religion a crutch?
Personally I have always wondered if faith is in some way a crutch to support you through life without having to face the fact that death is final. If I’m right then surely all religions have the same common goal.
I think you are right that religions have a common goal, and offering life everlasting is the tool they use to achieve that goal. With this on offer they provide experts who because of their close contact with whatever deity they have chosen are able to pronounce on all aspects of life and provide instruction on how you should behave. You are required to give generously to support these experts in the style they wish to be used to, this includes expensive works of art which are obviously essential so that they can rest their weary eyes after witnessing the horrors of the world.

For religious reasons pretty much anything is allowed including the physical maiming of young children and terrorising them with threats of eternal damnation if they don't do exactly as they are told, and more impossibly, not only do exactly as they are told but think exactly as they are told.

But for those that accept all the doctrines and human interpretation of the word of the deity, give as generously as they can even to their last bean, accept all that happens to them or is forced upon them without protest, then for them life everlasting is available.

I could go on but there is little point in bringing up the same old argument here that have always existed against doctrines that have been carefully designed and refined, in some cases over thousands of years, to hold the susceptible in its thrall and ensure that they accept anything that its leaders do as an being the will and design of (enter name of relevant god or gods here) - this may of course include the total eradication of anyone that does not agree with their point of view or threatens the leaders livelihood.

I notice that a recently released murderer in Turkey (can't remember the thread) is now claiming to be a new messiah with the promise of writing a definitive gospel - seems that about 30 years incarceration didn't give him the time to, but I'm sure he too will have his followers.
 
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Is religion a crutch?
It's not ignorant Shirley as well we all know. If religion comforts people in difficult times then that is good. Personally I don't need it and just believe there are too many people worrying about the next life rather than living this one. It does peeve me though when people say religion makes you a better person. I believe I am a good person with good values without it.
i have to agree with that Martyn..there are a lot of religious bigots and hypocrites ..but this type of person would be the same whatever they believed or didnt believe
 

Robert

Member
Is religion a crutch?
i have to agree with that Martyn..there are a lot of religious bigots and hypocrites ..but this type of person would be the same whatever they believed or didnt believe

There are also loads of bigots and hypocrites who are not religious. People of faith are just that, people of faith.
We have all the failings of any other human being.
No one would ever accuse me of being a pompus Bible thumper[just look at some of my threads on here]. I am a Christian, warts and all, but to read some of the threads on here, I feel like a separate, sub spiecies.:28: By the way I do not need a crutch, I am not ill.
 

nomaderol

Member
Is religion a crutch?
I notice that a recently released murderer in Turkey (can't remember the thread) is now claiming to be a new messiah with the promise of writing a definitive gospel - seems that about 30 years incarceration didn't give him the time to, but I'm sure he too will have his followers.

Agca. It was previous pope, after meeting Agca in jail, who said "high forces helped him." Later, many Christians interpreted this differently and they were in shock and Agca started to make such claims. Anyway, if someones (priests, imams, etc) are claiming they are shadows of gods on the earth, why not this poor guy.. btw, soon, he is going to make some millions of dollars soon from holywood movie makers. he is believed to be one with key stories about secret history of last decades.
 

Xerox

BAA - but not sheepish!
Is religion a crutch?
Him's him...

... Ağca later briefly spoke to press members waiting in the lobby, but insisted on talking in English despite journalists requests to talk in Turkish. "In the name of God, almighty, I proclaim the end of the world in this century. All the world will be destroyed, every human being will die. I am not God, I am not son of God, I am Christ eternal." See The Hurriyet here

Not the first to start a religion of his own either, funnily enough one such was brought to a halt here in Turkey I believe at about the turn of the century, a Jew insisting he was the messiah. The Sultan allowed him some freedom and then gave him the offer of a lifetime. Basically trial by ordeal - he would stand still and the archers would shoot at him, if he were the messiah then God would not allow him to be harmed... or he could convert to Islam - he chose the latter - but many of his followers did not believe this to have been true, nor after his death some years later, did many believe that he had died but rather that he was still among us but not in visible form and was waiting the right moment to reveal himself again. He still has a small following.
 

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