martin m

Member
is it just us
Hi
I have just been reading the "opening a new store" thread by dreamy, and as usual whenever some one comes on here putting their dreams and ideas into print, for example.

I want to come and live with my Turkish boyfriend.
I want to come and open my own business.
I want to buy a property.
Is so and so reliable and honest.
Should I trust him with my inheritance.

All us members (me included) make Turkey sound like its the most untrustworthy place on the planet, and because I like a lot of the long term members have read some of the stories that have gone off, I can understand why we do it.
The question is this, is it just us,(brits) are we or have we been just so trustworthy, gullable, and stupid?, I know we probably top the list of international property purchasers in Turkey, so for that reason alone we probably have the most nationals that have been ripped of, But it would seem that the trade fairs have moved on to promoting Turkish property in other countries, are the Russians now being ripped off along with the Germans and Dutch to the same extent that we were, or are they far more savvy.
 

oldfogy

Just passing through
is it just us
Of course it's not just us brits, some of the turks have even ripped of other turks.

The problem is that we hope and think we are doing the right thing by repeating what has happened just-in-case the other person does not realise these things are happening to everyone and the 'it will never happen to me because I'm too street wise' syndrome just does not exist, and there is no reason to doubt that it's not still going on even at this moment in time.

As for other nationals being ripped off, probably, but unless people know of them then they like ourselves will probably stick with their preferred forums, maybe if people understood the various languages it could be very interesting to visit other nations forums.

Either that or it's a conspiracy against us Brits.:high5:
 

tosmur

Member
is it just us
I think most people are trying to prevent people getting into a difficult situation or getting ripped off. I think people care. But if people are asking theses questions they must be nervous and have doubts I guess.

As far as I am aware Germany & Russia top the list of international property buyers in Turkey - unless things have changed.

I think Russians maybe more fussy and they certainly want the best properties at bargain prices. Whether they are more savvy I don't know.
 

kibris

Member
is it just us
Some of the germans that come here to buy property speak fluent turkısh and are of turkısh extractıon--ıe turks that went to lıve and work ın germany a few generatıons ago.Some of my neıghbours are such people and come every year for the summer months then head back to theır homes ın germany.They also have turkısh relatıves here.Thıs all helps when they are purchasıng property ,or dealıng wıth buılders,purchasıng etc as they know how thıngs work and have famıly to assıst them.
 
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cside

Member
is it just us
Whilst no doubt there are Turks who will rip you off. I do not seem to be meeting them. I feel more at risk of having someone try to rip me off in the UK. Personally I think a some of the scare stories are urban myths. I am not ignoring the facts or being naive, I know that some people have been ripped off and feel sorry for them. However, I do not see Turks as being less honest than Brits.
 

martin m

Member
is it just us
Hi
Well for starters I for one, don't believe that there are just as many Russians and Germans getting/being ripped off as the many hundreds of British people have been, and I base that on the fact that even with the language barrier, the numbers off people being ripped off would have been so high there would have been some kind of international outcry, Turkeys construction of holiday homes would have been abandoned/ crippled to a far more serious state than what its in now, and the place would be on some kind of blacklist for the world.
I prefer to think that we are just (most not all)some sort of soft touch, don't forget most brits who had dealings with solicitors took what they said as wrote in stone, so that in itself must account for a lot of misgivings with Turkish solicitors.
oldfogey, I don't think it is was a conspiracy against brits, I just don't think they could believe that so many of us could be so trusting, (or stupid)and I include myself in that.
 

Guz1

Member
is it just us
I don't see any advice on the Opening a Store thread that I wouldn't give to any young woman thinking of starting a business in any foreign country. Thieves and confidence tricksters don't care about the nationality of their victims. No doubt they tailor their approach to suit the prey, just like market traders use whatever language/accent they reckon will get them a sale. Brits are no more or less gullible than people from other countries.
 

martin m

Member
is it just us
Hi Guz1
I have many many times gave the same kind of advice to people seeking it on this forum, and will continue to do so for their sake, that's not or ever has been the issue.
The kind of thing I am getting at is for example this, just like most summer evenings on most sea fronts in Turkey the bar front lads DONT EVEN TRY to get their fellow turks into a restaurant/bar because they know they are wasting their time, likewise does a Turkish property builder or emlak think well I wont try to pull that one on a Russian, I can only get away with that with a brit.
martin
 

oldfogy

Just passing through
is it just us
Whilst no doubt there are Turks who will rip you off. I do not seem to be meeting them. I feel more at risk of having someone try to rip me off in the UK. Personally I think a some of the scare stories are urban myths. I am not ignoring the facts or being naive, I know that some people have been ripped off and feel sorry for them. However, I do not see Turks as being less honest than Brits.

No-doubt you have not been staying especially in some of the cheaper hotels who insist on charging £10 PER DAY to use the air con.

Obviously compared to most of the cons that one is but a tiddler in the scheme of things, but take even just one tourist per week for the summer season and that amounts to daylight robbery, then they then wonder why they don't get may repeat customers.
circa £1,000 per month and bloody legal too boot.
 

Guz1

Member
is it just us
I reckon that coaxing people into bars works better on foreigners because they're more likely to have time (and money) on their hands.

The property stuff is different. What probably makes Brits more susceptible than, say, Russians, is that Brits are used to tighter regulation and probably expect the same standards of regulation in other countries. I toyed with buying a place elsewhere after we sold our place in Turkey and started doing some research. It's a minefield out there, so maybe people from other countries just have a better idea of what to watch out for.

Maybe Russians expect to be ripped off and are more alert to it. Then again, maybe Russians are being ripped off and the full extent isn't known yet. Brits have been buying in Turkey for a very long time, whereas Russians are fairly new to the scene.
 

newhorizon

"Light Years Away"
is it just us
Interesting thread Martin M.

As someone already mentioned do agree that fraudsters, tricksters will try to sell whatever it is property, over priced drinks in bars etc to any nationality. I think what you're trying to find out are other nationalities eg Russian, Germans equally vulnerable?

I guess it depends how much of the language one speaks and understands. I know many Germans do speak Turkish, and our builder in Turkey that used to sell to foreigners is now only selling to turks, but I found out he sells to Germans, Russians, Dutch, (but not Brits anymore) but think they maybe of Turkish origin living abroad. I think communication is a real issue sometimes.

This is an observation, generally if a potential customer looks so excited and enthusiastic, it's easier for a conman to extract more cash, with many Brits the sunshine is a huge trigger happy factor, not sure Russians show their excitement pre sale or purchase as much, and Germans tend to be very thorough and many speak Turkish. These are all potential factorstthat may make some nationalities more prone to being ripped off in Turkey.

Equally, there are many smooth property operators in UK, I have been ripped off by companies in UK, conveniently all now declared themselves bankrupt. However as this thread is about Turkey will stick with that:)
 

martin m

Member
is it just us
Hi Guz1
I know the bar lads was not a good example, but it was only to show how people are targeted differently, and I agree with the rest of your last post, which is the question I asked at the beginning, "are we not as savvy"?,or are we too soft?.
 
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juco

Member
is it just us
I reckon one reason Brits get ripped off is because we compared the prices to the UK and thought we were getting a bargain not realising they were overpriced within the Turkish market. We still do it when purchasing items in Turkey, I have heard so often Brits say that is cheap compared to the UK, other nationalities will base prices on the Turkish markets more so than we do.

At least thats what I think as we are not used to bargaining as a way of life.
 

oldfogy

Just passing through
is it just us
Personally I think the answer is that the majority of us are just too friendly and also want to be one of the group, therefore we let our guard down for fear of rejection more than we should.

Part of that is explained by when we go into a bar or restaurant we want to show our appreciation by chatting as much as possible, which is not just to while away the time of day.
The same again, how often have you gone into a establishment and the first thing you ask is 'where is so-and-so'
 

newhorizon

"Light Years Away"
is it just us
I reckon one reason Brits get ripped off is because we compared the prices to the UK and thought we were getting a bargain not realising they were overpriced within the Turkish market. We still do it when purchasing items in Turkey, I have heard so often Brits say that is cheap compared to the UK, other nationalities will base prices on the Turkish markets more so than we do.

At least thats what I think as we are not used to bargaining as a way of life.

That's a good point juco. I've noticed this a lot from property to dental costs. One should never compare costs of such as taxes , insurances are so different. Eg professional body membership fees BDA (dentists), GMC (doctors), GOC(opthalmic opticians), insurances for doctors, dentists etc are so high in UK so naturally dental, optical, medical costs would be lower in Turkey, plus is the payment taken as cash and taxed. Uk taxes being so high and vat. Quality of materials, labour costs etc are lower so it's not the same comparing Turkey vs UK or XY. I always compare prices in Turkish lira and really dislike it when I'm quoted in sterling pounds for a job, or treatment in Turkey.

Quoting a job in sterling pounds in Turkey automatically makesthe opotential customer/ client compare it to costs in UK and not compare with local Turkish lira prices or question the quality or grade of materials used.


I do love bargaining though, picked that up in India.
 

Guz1

Member
is it just us
Hi Guz1
I know the bar lads was not a good example, but it was only to show how people are targeted differently, and I agree with the rest of your last post, which is the question I asked at the beginning, "are we not as savvy"?,or are we too soft?.

I don't think it's a matter of being too soft. Maybe savvy has more to do with it, but don't we accumulate savvyness (is that a word?) from our own life's experiences? Brits, for the most part, don't expect to be ripped off and lied to by professionals.

I agree with Newhorizon's points about Brits (and expecially Irish) practically begging to be overcharged by oohing and ahhing about how cheap everything was in Turkey, especially in the early days.

Another problem was Brits working for emlaks. More than a few of them went from very ordinary jobs to being "experts" on all things Turkish. Tesco checkout operator goes to Turkey on holiday, falls for Ismael, believes everything he tells her, gets job in his family's/friend's estate agency and hey presto she's raking in the commission selling to her unsuspecting compatriots. And it wasn't just women, and not just in the property business. How many Brits have you come across who got kickbacks for directing folk to bars/shops, etc?

Germans are different for the reasons others have mentioned, but I'll bet that plenty of Dutch have been ripped off too.
 

Chinook

Member
is it just us
People from different nationalities are ripped off in many countries its just you don't hear about it , from time share in the Canaries , through land ownership scams in Spain etc. Property fraud in the UK runs towards tens of millions every year. Has anybody checked a Russsian Forum lately?
 

cside

Member
is it just us
No-doubt you have not been staying especially in some of the cheaper hotels who insist on charging £10 PER DAY to use the air con.

Obviously compared to most of the cons that one is but a tiddler in the scheme of things, but take even just one tourist per week for the summer season and that amounts to daylight robbery, then they then wonder why they don't get may repeat customers.
circa £1,000 per month and bloody legal too boot.


Sure there are hotels in Turkey that work this way. There are just as many in the UK tourist resorts doing similar things. Every country has people who are dishonest. I do not believe there are more dishonest people in Turkey than there are in the UK. People in these forums all too often paint the UK as a haven of honesty etc. This is patently not the case, we have rogue traders, dodgy lawyers a plenty.
When I spoke with my Turkish friends about buying property recently they all warned me about the pitfalls of buying and advised renting prior to buying to check I liked living in the area. None of them tried to sell me a property or put me in touch with someone who is selling. When I spoke with Brits they usually suggested someone who was selling a property, usually at a vastly inflated price in pounds, sometimes saying I could do a private sale without an emlak involved. Conveniently ignoring the fact that the exchange rate has radically changed and wanting to realise what the paid in pounds. Whilst the property has probably increased in TL price due to exchange rate changes it is worth less in pounds or euros. Tough for them I know to lose money but isn't it verging on dishonesty to try to sell a property at vastly inflated prices?
 

kale

Member
is it just us
Hi Guz1
I know the bar lads was not a good example, but it was only to show how people are targeted differently, and I agree with the rest of your last post, which is the question I asked at the beginning, "are we not as savvy"?,or are we too soft?.

My believe is that at the time of our purchase in the turkish property market ,
My blame is on the lawyers who were also new to the property side of things and had no idea what they were doing , we were at the time expecting our choice of lawyers to look after us as buyers in there country ,
The property buisness and SCAMS were also too much for them ,
However at the end of the day the lawyers don,t loose a penny just the purchasers ,
The Russians in my mind are the next Brits , watch this space.

Cheers Yvonne xxxx
 

Chinook

Member
is it just us
My blame is on the lawyers who were also new to the property side of things and had no idea what they were doing , we were at the time expecting our choice of lawyers to look after us as buyers in there country

Why blame the lawyers. More particularly in the early days it was naive purchasers with stars in their eyes who did not do even the most basic research which would have established that the way of doing things was different and Turkish lawyers had no particular expertise/experience in this field and you did not, and do not in most cases, need them. Bit like blaming the waiter at your favourite restaurant who acted as your agent and handing over oodles of cash without thought - now who would do that in the UK.
 

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