Integrity
Events of the last few weeks on this forum have made me realise what a great place it can be for supporting things like Pebble's courageous battle against cancer - and on the other hand how destructive it can be with members using it to bring damaging, unproven, libellous accusations into the public domain.

Today, I am appealling to all TLF members to try to remember the importance of integrity in this cyber community - as well as the world community - and think twice before hitting the Send button on anything which may be damaging hearsay, gossip or simply deliberate malicious misinformation.

Recently on this TLF we have seen wild allegations against individuals and organisations - some named openly, and others easily identifiable - which may or not be true but it is not for us to be cyber judge, jury and executioner.

One post even named an individual as a child molester and accused a mother of child neglect. What are we coming to????

I have no doubt that there are some members who feel strongly about things going on in their community and are worried about certain individuals actions. But the course of action they must take is through the official channels. If people have evidence of wrongdoings, alleged criminal activities, people at risk etc etc they MUST report it to the Jandarma or Polis.

It is totally wrong to use the TLF to air these allegations. And it is equally wrong to sit on evidence which may help bring people to justice or free them from blame. Evidence however must not be confused with tittle tattle, gossip, rumours etc instigated by bored individuals over EFES in chilled glasses and then related to other equally bored but gossip-hungry individuals as concrete evidence.

At the same time, there are people posting on this forum who seem to believe the good guys wear white hats and carry UK passports and the bad guys are always the Turks. Add to that a view that if a Turk cheated them out of 10 lira five years ago he must now be guilty of everything else and you have a very dangerous situation.

Sadly this colonial, Raj, superior, egotistical, British Bulldog attitude of "We're Brits, we know best" can be potentially and deliberately hurtful and harmful to the Turkish community in who's country we have chosen to be guests. We chose to live here, just like anyone who is not happy can choose to return to the UK.

But while we are here, lets remember the importance of integrity and the goodness that we can bring through the likes of Pebble and not the harm we can do by misinformed and sometimes malicious pointscoring.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

giglets

Member
Integrity
villabaris1

Very fair points.
I agree with most of what you say, as long as GENUINE information/warnings based on real, first-hand experiences can continue, as is, irrespective of the ethnicity of the "bad guys".
This type of info can really have a beneficial impact on many members' hopes/dreams/plans and should, in most cases, not be stifled or restricted.
 

pebble

Member
Integrity
OH my God Baris, what a brilliant post. Bravo for taking the time to type out such a wonderful message.
thank you., I am in sooooo agreement with you.

I have often found that we as a group can get petty and snydy and a little hoighty toighty (me included - i have made my share of snide remarks)
thanks for setting us straight, maybe we just didnt realize how nasty we can be, and how harmful and damaging our comments are.
 

parrot

Member
Integrity
Recently on this TLF we have seen wild allegations against individuals and organisations - some named openly, and others easily identifiable - which may or not be true but it is not for us to be cyber judge, jury and executioner.
One post even named an individual as a child molester
At the soame time, there are people posting on this forum who seem to believe the good guys wear white hats and carry UK passports and the bad guys are always the Turks.
Sadly this colonial, Raj, superior, egotistical, British Bulldog attitude of "We're Brits, we know best" can be potentially and deliberately hurtful and harmful to the Turkish community in who's country we have chosen to be guests. We chose to live here, just like anyone who is not happy can choose to return to the UK.
This appears a bit vague to me,not having time to examine every post I can't comment on most of your accusations.Where I disagree is when you referred to the British bulldog etc.Are you saying that because we invested lots of money into the Turkish economy we should roll over and be screwed by every Mehmet or Oz who sees us only as a cash cow.
I haven't yet made the move to Turkey but will soon,this will be solely for my benefit and I will be happy to return to the U.K.when and only when it suits me and I have sold my properties which will be my main aim when I move to Turkey.
 

bobthenob

Non Active Member
Integrity
l agree with you Parrot.The forum is there also to tell others to be aware of who and what.
l have already saved someone from a future nightmare,once he read the post of mine and others.
 

pebble

Member
Integrity
Parrot, of course we should still be a watchdog and warn people, isnt that what the forum is all about, but i think we just need to be cautious and have our facts, not just based on rumors, inuendos, and what not?

Use the forum, warn people, help people, dont be naive (i know you arent) this is what the forum is for.
Give my best to your wife.
 
Last edited:

bobthenob

Non Active Member
Integrity
l had an experience with an evil woman that pretended to be something she wasn't.
Even though l had no evidence at the time.l still went ahead with creating a thread about this seedy woman and found a lot of her history was all about conning people over the 15 years,which she has denied.
The voice paper got involved and dug up a lot of evidence which she cannot deny.lf it wasn't for me accusing the person in question,then l would never have had her deported from this country and also would never have found out of her evil ways in the pass.
lf there's a smoking gun,then l agree something should be brought up,by accusing that person of the crime to dig up the evidence from witnesses and victims.To say nothing and just ignore the incident will only allow the crime to get away with it.
 

Martyn

Member
Integrity
Bob I think that is the whole point, if you have experiences then post them, Villabaris is more for making the point on speculation rather than what you know. If I have a bad meal at a restaurant then I will post it because it is my experience but if I post for instance "don't eat at so and so" because I had a bad meal then that is not right as they are running a business and could suffer from it. There could be a 1000 people who have had a wonderful meal there and you just got unlucky. The other point being made is that you 'heard' the Bill Bloggs the Emlak was a crook, it's got to be based on something you know happened.
 
Last edited:

bobthenob

Non Active Member
Integrity
Bob I think that is the whole point, if you have experiences then post them, Villabaris is more for making the point on speculation rather than what you know. If I have a bad meal at a restaurant then I will post it because it is my experience but if I post for instance "don't eat at so and so" because I had a bad meal then that is not right as they are running a business and could suffer from i. There could be a 1000 people who have had a wonderful meal there and you just got unlucky. The other point being made is that you 'heard' the Bill Bloggs the Emlak was a crook, it's got to be based on something you know happened.

l understand what you are saying.But like l said if their is any suspicious behaviour behind the motives then something will come from that once it's posted on the forum.
Just recently l had a thread titled Buy 1 Get 2 free,which a member came along and exposed this guy what he really is a confidence trickster out to decieve others into grabbing the clients money and nothing else.
l have found out,there was a person interested in the so called deal and once he read the thread and also the other comments he backed off.l have saved a person from buying into a nightmare.And l'll do it again,if l see something suspicious going on.
 

Guz1

Member
Integrity
It is a great post from Villabaris and we should be careful about repeating rumours that could be bordering on libel.

On the other hand, plenty of people have been and continue to be ripped off to the tune of a great deal more than the odd 10 TL and because the ripoffs happen in Turkey more than 90% of the culprits are bound to be Turkish. People need to be aware of the pitfalls and where else but on forums such as TLF can we get our information? Bob's post contains an example of the reason why we cannot depend on English language newspapers.
 
Last edited:

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
Integrity
Great post vb.

What I've noticed too is that occasionally you will get someone posting about how they have been wronged by someone else, and the allegations are flying around. There are usually lots of messages of support and people advising this and that (sometimes crazy advice!).

We are only hearing one side of the story which in my experience is never all of it, but it seems that if you get in first, then more people will believe you.

Some people though just don't think before they post or worse still, they don't give a damn...


C
 
Integrity
l agree with you Parrot.The forum is there also to tell others to be aware of who and what.
l have already saved someone from a future nightmare,once he read the post of mine and others.

Bob/Parrot: I am not for one minute suggesting that people do not make others aware of potential pitfalls and dangers/scams etc. I am actively encouraging them to do so, and do it through the proper authorities.

However, as other people have pointed out on this thread, I am also urging people not to make wild accusations - especially of a sexual nature - about named people which may or may not be true, especially when these statements are being made as if they are proven matters of fact as opposed to "I heard in the pub the other night."

I repeat, anyone who has proper evidence about misappropriate acts of any nature should report them to the proper authorities who are better qualified to deal with them than gossip mongerers whose expertise is often increased with the more Efes they drink.

I too am well aware of people who have lost fortunes at the hands of Turkish emlaks/builders etc. I have a personal friend who has lost everything and I have encouraged her and others to do exactly the same and take the evidence through the proper channels.

However I cannot and will not agree with tactics used by expats on this forum recently to deliberately attempt to discredit Turkish individuals who have made complaints to the Jandarma - automatically taking the side of the Brits instead of a Turk because the Turk has allegedly used vitriolic language about expats in the past. The innocent until proven guilty philosophy applies to all nationalities not just the British.

As I said in my original posting, please judge all matters on the evidence, whether it be against a Brit or a Turk, not on what someone hears in a bar, and do not sit on that evidence but take it to the Polis or Jandarma.

For people to use this forum as a tool for throwing mud and hoping some of it sticks is not acceptable and all I urge is that people take my posting in the spirit it was written. To suggest that I am advocating people "rollover and be screwed by every Mehmet" illustrates my point about integrity perfectly. I will not dignify it with any further comment.
 

Guz1

Member
Integrity
Thank goodness for your last post Villabaris. I realise now that you weren't referring to our usual gripes about the dual pricing system.
 
Last edited:

bobthenob

Non Active Member
Integrity
Bob/Parrot: I am not for one minute suggesting that people do not make others aware of potential pitfalls and dangers/scams etc. I am actively encouraging them to do so, and do it through the proper authorities.

l understand.But sometimes,even taking it through the proper channels can cause a lot of money without even finding the evidence one needs to strengthen a case.
Where here if posted publicly will produce some surprizes that is needed to strengthen a case.This is when to take it further,because one knows now witnesses will be present and also the experiences from others that were victims can tell their story.lf the rumours are from a loose tongue that has no idea of the incident is wrong.So,you do have a point.

However, as other people have pointed out on this thread, I am also urging people not to make wild accusations - especially of a sexual nature - about named people which may or may not be true, especially when these statements are being made as if they are proven matters of fact as opposed to "I heard in the pub the other night."
Naming a person through wild accusations without any proof is libel.l know l wouldn't like it if my name was tarnished with such evil practice,that will mentally make me ill.

I repeat, anyone who has proper evidence about misappropriate acts of any nature should report them to the proper authorities who are better qualified to deal with them than gossip mongerers whose expertise is often increased with the more Efes they drink.
That can sometimes be more of a burden then to find the evidence yourself.Sometimes the authorities don't want to know unless they have something to go on with.This is where the forum comes in handy,by finding other victim and witnesses to make your case,so the authorities can progress on.The money also will put people off.

I too am well aware of people who have lost fortunes at the hands of Turkish emlaks/builders etc. I have a personal friend who has lost everything and I have encouraged her and others to do exactly the same and take the evidence through the proper channels.
lt will be better to rumble the builder through the tax office.Most likely the builder has evaded taxes.The absence of the tapu is a clue for a start.

However I cannot and will not agree with tactics used by expats on this forum recently to deliberately attempt to discredit Turkish individuals who have made complaints to the Jandarma - automatically taking the side of the Brits instead of a Turk because the Turk has allegedly used vitriolic language about expats in the past. The innocent until proven guilty philosophy applies to all nationalities not just the British.
lf it is deliberate behaviour to tarnish a persons name then l do agree with you.lf a person starts to take side,because he just assume he is quilty because of his ethnic.That is discrimination and using the blame culture as a tool just to tarnish someone's ethnic background is serious and should be looked into.
l deeply condemm anyone that discriminates and is racist,since you cannot judge who that person is,but to judge how that person is like within.

As I said in my original posting, please judge all matters on the evidence, whether it be against a Brit or a Turk, not on what someone hears in a bar, and do not sit on that evidence but take it to the Polis or Jandarma.
l do listen to what is said in the bar,which l take with a pitch of salt and see if l can dig up anymore evidence to strengthen the case to what has been said that day in the bar.lf it doesn't add up,then l know this person whats to poison this guys name,which does happen.
For people to use this forum as a tool for throwing mud and hoping some of it sticks is not acceptable and all I urge is that people take my posting in the spirit it was written. To suggest that I am advocating people "rollover and be screwed by every Mehmet" illustrates my point about integrity perfectly. I will not dignify it with any further comment.
To use this forum as a weapon against someone else is definately out of order.And you are quite right in bringing this up.
Well done
 

Alan Fidler

Ceteris paribus
Integrity
OH my God Baris, what a brilliant post. Bravo for taking the time to type out such a wonderful message.
thank you., I am in sooooo agreement with you.

I have often found that we as a group can get petty and snydy and a little hoighty toighty (me included - i have made my share of snide remarks)
thanks for setting us straight, maybe we just didnt realize how nasty we can be, and how harmful and damaging our comments are.

I couldn't agree more.. no need to be nasty, pointing fingers, laying blame... bringing personal issues to the forum... it's a place for discussion not a snug for old fishwives to gossip about other people and their personal business,like.. "he said this and she said that... " That should be done in private and off site.
Or to round up a posse to hound someone outta town like, " there's gonna be a hangin..! who wants to join my lynch mob."?
I have to admit i can shoot from the hip.. say the wrong thing in the wrong way, but if it's pointed out or I'm reminded, I'm apologetic and right my wrongs.
Sometimes i say the right thing though in the wrong way and its taken out of context... we all have foibles... none of us are perfect.
 

Latest Posts

Top Bottom