bobthenob

Non Active Member
Forgive or Not To Forgive
I was interested in the many comments from the thread of Ronnie Biggs about forgiving and let the man be in peace.Which l found quite strange,because he knew what he was doing was wrong and has never shown an once of remorse during all these years on the run.He has chosen to have no conscience of what he done, while living off the stolen money.
I just want to ask this question to the members.When is it feasible to forgive someone and when is it not to forgive.
My view is,if someone has been misguided in life and has realized the misery at what that person has done and has genuinely repented.Then l believe that person should be forgiven and given the chance to educate himself on how ethics will be more beneficial.

But if you have a person[example only] like Hitler,Stalin,SuddamHussien,the evil tyrants of the world that have slaughtered men woman and children for their selfish cause and has shown no mercy during their time in power over the people.Would you forgive them if they were brought to trial, and they are pleading for mercy and forgiveness.

This may seem like a stupid question,but would you forgive the devil,even though the devils policies were deliberate and is set out to destroy the very foundation of what life is all about.And then at the very end,the devil cries out for mercy and forgiveness.

There are some people in the world that thrives on misery and suffering,but when the time catches up with them,they pretend to be something their not,and that is not having the moral strength from the heart,but only from the mouth.

Deception can play a major part from these people by using ethical behaviour as a tool from others for treacherous reasons.
This is why l cannot forgive what this person has done to the family and the British public.
What do you think
 
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teresa

Free Thinker
Forgive or Not To Forgive
I have no reason to forgive or not to forgive - he did nothing to me. Is he seeking forgiveness for himself or is he seeking forgiveness from others?

I just consider him to have been a thief and a coward and do not wish to see him held up as some sort of public hero.

The rest is between him, his maker and his victims.
 

Martyn

Member
Forgive or Not To Forgive
I think Bob you are looking from a religious angle but in my eyes I am just looking at the situation now. Normally I would say serve your sentence but the man clearly has only a very short time to live so it's not forgiveness in my eyes, it's compassion. I think no matter what he did, i think his last few restricted days should be allowed to be free.

From a religious angle one might think they will burn in hell and therefore beg forgiveness but that doesn't matter for me as i'm a non believer.
 

pebble

Member
Forgive or Not To Forgive
Well, shoot...i had this whole thing typed up and lost it (been happening a lot lately...wonder why) ok..this time Im going to try to not loose this.

I think that there is a big difference between the likes of Hitler, stalin, idi amin, saddam hussein, and world leaders who have massacred millions in the name of whatever......... they can never be forgiven.
this guy, was a minor player from what I understand, he never showed remorse, he wasnt really the mastermind behind the scam, he snubbed the system and got away with it for a while.
egads....... dont we have a *hit** load of people like that out there now? arent our politicians like that? what about all the people who have bilked people on the stock market????

he is dying, give him a couple of days i say.......
or do you think he should be electrocuted, with a thousand people waiting outside for the lights to flicker???? he he he sorry had to just throw that in. one extreme to the other.

On the other hand, what do you think of Michael Jackson, who has lost his icky status cause he died suddenly? there was a time when no one liked him, I even threw away free willy casette cause i didnt want his music tainting my children........but i wonder now......was he really a pedophile, or was he just an immature, misguided disturbed person who was terribly wacko.......so, why the payoff? his advisors???? i dont think he ever made a decision in his life..... they are now billing him as the best performer in all time......

Bob, really good thought provoking post. But, I cant get into the religious view of it. It really isnt my place. I'll leave that to the Pious ones. People who know more about the ins and outs......
 
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Mushroom

Member
Forgive or Not To Forgive
It's not rain - In your case it's your god peeing on you for previous comments about Ronnie Biggs !
 

ukizook

Member
Forgive or Not To Forgive
This may seem like a stupid question,but would you forgive the devil,even though the devils policies were deliberate and is set out to destroy the very foundation of what life is all about.And then at the very end,the devil cries out for mercy and forgiveness.

Bob, never mind the Devil. Would you forgive God [whichever]for letting all the suffering that has happened in his/her/it's name ?

You could put every tyrannical dictator and every wierd sicko mass murderer together and add up all the deaths and suffering caused by them. This figure would be a mere drop compared to the famine, disease, plauges etc that has happened throughout the years.

Back to Ronnie, He has been made into some kind of Martyr by some folk, but I think his original sentence was way to severe in the first place. If he'd severd his time instead of lording it in Brazil he would have been out a long time ago. Personally I think we should just have refused him entry to the UK at let him sort his own health out in Brazil.
 

bobthenob

Non Active Member
Forgive or Not To Forgive
Bob, never mind the Devil. Would you forgive God [whichever]for letting all the suffering that has happened in his/her/it's name ?

You could put every tyrannical dictator and every wierd sicko mass murderer together and add up all the deaths and suffering caused by them. This figure would be a mere drop compared to the famine, disease, plauges etc that has happened throughout the years.

l have explained this so many times in my previous postings and threads.
 

ukizook

Member
Forgive or Not To Forgive
l will one day.l'll put it in a more simpler term.

l wouldn't class you as thick,more in the way of being lost and confused

But Im a good map reader, have a sat nav and have Google Earth on my comp. I would say that Im far from being lost, but as far as confused I agree 100% with you on that. ...................................................................................................




















.............. But then again. Who wouldn't be with some of your postings ;)
 

DAVIDO

Member
Forgive or Not To Forgive
myra hindley did obviously worse crimes than biggs , but who remembers lord longford and his campaign to get her released, saying she was not the evil woman that went in .what a naffin pilock he was...

davido
 

juco

Member
Forgive or Not To Forgive
Regardless of what he was involved in I just don`t think anything is now being achieved by keeping him locked up.

I am more concerned that the government can take a person thats on his last legs and still sink the boot in.
 

Ms Who

aka Kym Ciftci
Forgive or Not To Forgive
If something is done to you personally, it is up to you if you want to forgive but as for the dictators, who are we to forgive them? We can be horrified by it and could in numbers campaign against such events/people but as individual human beings, we are not omnipotant.

As much as I would like to personally ring the necks of certain offenders wouldn't that just make me a murderer?

Like Martyn says, its about compassion, you either have it for a certain case/person, or you dont. Your opinions are yours to believe and everyone else is entitled to theirs.

Me personally, I believe in Karma and its not let me down this far.

We may wait a long time for legal or natural justice to be served, but it always is and its far better for you if it is not at your hands.
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
Forgive or Not To Forgive
I was around when biggs committed his crime, I was followed by myra hindley through the streets of gorton, and I remember ronald biggs tune with the pistols which he apparrently wrote !
check out "no one is innocent" on u tube listen to what biggs has to say ! then listen carefully to his lyrics, you might feel forgiveness is not justified ! i dont !

martin
 

Akasya

Postless Pointer
Forgive or Not To Forgive
Jack Straw has saved a decent Prison Officer from the indignity of finding Mr. Biggs expired in his cell. He has also ensured that the family of Mr. Biggs will have the pleasure of arranging and paying for the funeral. Bet not much dosh will come over from Brazil.

Good timing Mr. Straw.

Steve.
 

DAVIDO

Member
Forgive or Not To Forgive
it seems a sence of forgiveness comes over us when someone whos done a crime and is old and dying , so what about ian brady ,is there some compassionate members who want him released.biggs was arogant enough to flaunt the police and live the good life in brazil, but when hes old and ill wants our compassion ,dream on..like martin says look at his piece on u tube.

davido
 

ceemac

Shake It Baby...
Forgive or Not To Forgive
Interestingly, the grandson of the train driver who was a victim of the robbery says that Biggs should have rotted in jail and wishes he was dead, so not much forgiving there.

Here


C
 

pineapple1

I Love Kleopatra Beach !
Forgive or Not To Forgive
AH maybe granpa didn't send him on a world cruise or pay off his morgage or buy him a new car !! and maybe he wants to save face with the naighbours . Bet they keep e weary eye on him With Biggs being his name . Expects he gets paid for articles / interviews by the press and any other media Diane
 

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