Tenpin

The Yorkshireman
fire west london
They have had tobacco and alcohol sponsorship over the years but this takes the biscuit, let's hope the drivers do the right thing
By doing what?
Running Lewis Hamilton and team mate off the track.....lol
 

Camden

Member
fire west london
I notice the the Michael Gove stepping into the fray to gain some kudos vocalising his condemnation saying “deeply disappointed Mercedes are accepting sponsorship from cladding firm Kingspan " and "demanding a U turn by Mercedes" ... Well this Govt would know something about U turns ... but bowing to :unsure: demands ?

Should a member of a Party and Govt that didn't return (or even donate it to the Grenfell fund ) a £25,000 donation they took in the year of the tragedy from a major shareholder in Arconic the people that made the combustible cladding that murdered the victims...

As Karim Mussilhy who himself lost a family member in Grenfell and vice-chairman of the survivors’ group Grenfell United demanded should happen to the blood money :unsure:
 
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fire west london
Gove should put his money where his mouth is and make them pay for the remedial work leaseholders are having to pay for their crap. and support the Polluter Pays bill
 

Camden

Member
fire west london

London Fire Brigade warned government of high-rise fire fears weeks before Grenfell


In evidence given it was revealed that letters were sent to the UK government and the Conservative Party weeks before the tragedy in which 72 people died, occurred.

Shown the documents, Dany Cotton, commissioner of the LFB at the time of the fire, admitted that the brigade did have some knowledge of the risk of a large high-rise fire before Grenfell.

This contrasts with her previous claim to the inquiry in 2018 that fire was as foreseeable as “a space shuttle landing on the Shard”.

During the questioning of Ms Cotton , lead counsel Richard Millett QC presented her with a letter sent by the LFB to the then housing minister Gavin Barwell in April 2017, fewer than two months before the Grenfell Tower fire.

The letter, which was signed by Ms Cotton, highlighted growing concern within the LFB over the quality of construction in some residential blocks, and particularly blocks of flats.

 
fire west london
Stories on Sky news about fire safety up and down the country. We ourselves are still waiting for our report 2 years after we discovered we needed an EWS1 fire safety certificate in order to sell. We are a building over 18m which is considered high risk. The freeholder has just sent the bill for the yearly ground rent (£200 that doubles in 5 years). Service charge doubled last year (we are some of the lucky ones only £1900 extra) with a 25% increase in insurance and fire safety remedial work in a commercial unit we don't even have access to.

We have no idea of the remedial costs that could potentially ruin us and our son because the managing agent, who we have no say in appointing got the height of the building wrong and missed the funding deadline. The managing agent is appointed by the freeholder, we have no say except to go through a lengthy right to manage process in order to wrestle it from them.

Why is the Tory Government protecting these charlatans? Why can't we have justice? Leaseholders are being shafted by everyone - developers, freeholders, managing agents, insurance brokers and even the Government are getting a 20% VAT windfall from the works done. See some of the stories in the link below

 

Kanga

Member
fire west london
I feel so sorry for your predicament. I've heard of some people selling to the companies that buy any property for a lower price but pay cash, just to walk away from the problem if it's financially possible.
 

Chasey

Member
fire west london
So, F1 teams will carry sponsorship of Grenfell cladding company. Time to be heard I think. Must not happen, won't happen. New thread on dodgy sponsorships tomorrow.


Id like to bet 90% of houses built after 1980 have Kingspan products in them. I know that the house I built for the family home had about 7K worth of Kingspan in it.

Will all the morel outraged individuals be ripping out their Kingspan in protest?

Unlikely.

The fault is not with the product manufacturers. The fault lies fair and square on the specifiers and the building regulation authority for A: specifying this unsuitable product and B: granting building regs for its use on Grenfell

Blaming Kingspan is about as logical as blaming Smith and Weston for every crime committed using their guns

The cladding is being targeted for blame, but the truth is there were several contributing factors which the local authorities should have addressed

Should Kingspan hold part of the blame for merely manufacturing this product? Personally, I think that's a stretch in the same vein as the gun makers being responsible for gun crime.
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
fire west london
Id like to bet 90% of houses built after 1980 have Kingspan products in them. I know that the house I built for the family home had about 7K worth of Kingspan in it.

Will all the morel outraged individuals be ripping out their Kingspan in protest?

Unlikely.

The fault is not with the product manufacturers. The fault lies fair and square on the specifiers and the building regulation authority for A: specifying this unsuitable product and B: granting building regs for its use on Grenfell

Blaming Kingspan is about as logical as blaming Smith and Weston for every crime committed using their guns

The cladding is being targeted for blame, but the truth is there were several contributing factors which the local authorities should have addressed

Should Kingspan hold part of the blame for merely manufacturing this product? Personally, I think that's a stretch in the same vein as the gun makers being responsible for gun crime.
However

"Kingspan had changed the chemical composition of the insulation in 2006, a year after the successful 2005 fire test which was then used in the product’s marketing literature for nearly fifteen years before the test report was withdrawn in October last year.

A 2007 fire test of the newer, changed version of K15 had turned a laboratory into a “raging inferno” which had to be extinguished before the end of the test out of fears that it would endanger the laboratory."
 

enoch

Member
Top Poster Of Month
fire west london
I think the government should bear all the costs because at the end of the day it's there building regs a fire regs passed it, and how many years have they known about it.
 
fire west london
I think the Government should pay initially Enoch, but then retrieve the costs from all involved - the cladding manufacturers and developers. Grenfell wasn't just about cladding, but missing fire breaks but poor construction too. Martin is right, the enquiry found they had changed the composition. Tax payers shouldn't have to pay for these people's greed. However, the Government has been complicit in deregulating construction. so owe it to residents of high rise to pursue these people.

The Govt. is best placed to put a levy on these people because us mere mortals would spend a fortune in litigation trying to prove liability against these mega rich companies. Unfortunately, the Tories are in the pocket of these said companies and therein lies the problem - they don't want to upset their donors
 

429nufc

Member
fire west london
I would assume that Kingspan would know what know what type of building their products were going into and therefore it’s suitability or not?
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
fire west london
I would assume that Kingspan would know what know what type of building their products were going into and therefore it’s suitability or not?
Not really, Their products are off the shelf even from Wickes, if you buy from one of the big builders merchants, you the buyer/developer get to choose the specification of which there are quite a few.
 

Chasey

Member
fire west london
However

"Kingspan had changed the chemical composition of the insulation in 2006, a year after the successful 2005 fire test which was then used in the product’s marketing literature for nearly fifteen years before the test report was withdrawn in October last year.

A 2007 fire test of the newer, changed version of K15 had turned a laboratory into a “raging inferno” which had to be extinguished before the end of the test out of fears that it would endanger the laboratory."


Kingspan had no role in the design of the cladding system on Grenfell Tower, where its K15 product constituted approximately 5% of the insulation purchased for use. It was used as a substitute product without Kingspan’s knowledge in a system that was not compliant with the buildings regulations and was unsafe.

Kingspan strongly agrees with the Phase 1 Report of the Inquiry which stated that "the principal reason” 1 for rapid fire spread on Grenfell was the polyethylene cladding panels used. Any considered review of the available evidence supports our position that the type of insulation used on the Tower made no material difference to the nature and speed of the spread of the fire.

Where questions have been raised about Kingspan's historical BS 8414 testing, the tests have all been repeated and provided evidence to support previous fire safety claims. Kingspan Insulation relies on each of its 14 successful BS 8414 tests to demonstrate why it is confident that K15 can safely be used and retained in appropriate cladding systems.2
 

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