Mushtaq

Founding Member
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
A Christian-run bakery is facing legal action from a Government agency for refusing to produce a cake carrying a picture of the Sesame Street characters Bert and Ernie and the slogan “support gay marriage”.

Ashers Baking Co, based in Newtownabbey, Northern Ireland, cancelled an order for a novelty cake with a picture of the puppets arm in arm printed onto the icing saying that it went against the directors’ religious beliefs.

They believe that producing the cake with the slogan and the logo of QueerSpace, a gay rights group the would-be customer supports, would amount to endorsing the campaign for the introduction of gay marriage in the province, and go against their religious convictions.

Bert and Ernie gay marriage cake leaves Christian bakery facing court threat - Telegraph
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
Yet again the fundamentalist christian types in this quasi statelet show their inherent bigotry and bias. Mind you watch this space for more fun from these bigots as we head towards this Saturday
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
Sure has Kanga
Last week they erected a Klu Klux Klan banner, then vandalised a Catholic Church before re launching a loyalist band which last year was filmed urinating against a catholic chapel.

Their bigotfest is due to kick off this Sat with more proud displays of their loyalty to Britain by acts of sectarian hatred


Bottom line- IN THIS NECK OF THE WOODS- show me a fundamentalist christian and I'll show you a sectarian bigot
 
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Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
I'm in two minds about this, because it is their belief so surely they have the right to choose. If I had a cake business and a circus using performing animals wanted me to do a cake advertising that fact, I would refuse because I completely disagree with lions and tigers being trained for human fun. There is a place for sticking to your principles, whether others agree with you or not.
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
So you reckon is ok to refuse to serve customers because they are, gay, black, disabled, Catholic, Irish, etc etc.

Extraordinary .

Are you by any chance a " Christian" too?
 

Kanga

Member
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
There was a case a few years ago where a christian couple running a guest house in (I think) Scotland, refused a double room to a gay couple. They ended up in court and were found guilty of breaking the rules.
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
Quite right too Kanga.

The bottom line is theres very little difference between standing by " personal beliefs" - however flakey- and downright discrimination, be it racist, sexist, sectarian etc.

I am no expert on any religion but I do remember something in the " Christian" variety re loving your enemies, compassion and turning other cheek to those who are different to yourself.

Turns out like in all others" religions" these values are very conditional .

Don't want to take this off topic but it is relevant as this cake episode is in the North of Ireland- believe me when people here use their " religious values" in interaction with others of different opinion its ALWAYS in a negative manner
 
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Saoirse

Moderator
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
Don't see where I've said any of that actually.


I was asking which of those were ok in the " Christian" doctrine and more specifically in this case discrimination because of sexual orientation.

Is it any wonder ( here especially) we cringe when the " devout christian " types show us their values


Tune in to Belfast this weekend to see more " devout god fearing Christians" showing their love for their fellow man
 
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Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
I was asking which of those were ok in the " Christian" doctrine and more specifically in this case discrimination because of sexual orientation.

Is it any wonder ( here especially) we cringe when the " devout christian " types show us their values


None of that is acceptable, it absolutely is not OK to discriminate, and I personally wouldn't have a problem making the cake (except I can't bake) but where I mentioned the animals in circuses, I would refuse that, so where someone feels so strongly (in this case wrongly in my opinion) do they not have the right to stand by their beliefs?
 
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
Also Philip, re your last sentence, I won't get into a debate re Northern Ireland, because all I know of that is what's one the news, you know more about it than me, I accept that its a very different situation. But, I will say that all across the world there are people who say they are Christian, when in fact they are very much not.
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
You make a fair point Helen and please note I have SPECIFICALLY highlighted the " Christian" types in Belfast- not elsewhere.

My point is however if your own feelings/ religious beliefs impinge on others rights surely the " Christian" approach would be to desist- especially if such discriminatory action is also illegal.

Again I stress the fundamentalist nutjob Christians I have a problem with are the local variety only


When I look around the globe at others both famous and otherwise there are many many examples of downright decency and extraordinary devotion to helping their fellow man
 
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trevoro

Member
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
There was a case a few years ago where a christian couple running a guest house in (I think) Scotland, refused a double room to a gay couple. They ended up in court and were found guilty of breaking the rules.

The Judge has since said that the ruling might not have been right and the Christian beliefs are eroding and not being taken into proper consideration.

This is obviously a tricky one, ones own belief and the law of the land

at the end of the day we must uphold the law of the land, and people should put their prejudices side, for the good of the majority
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
The problem with putting ones " own beliefs" ahead of the rights of others is where does it end.

Someone could claim that serving black people,Jews, Christians, disabled people etc - is against their own beliefs.- thin end of the wedge to blatant discrimination. Believe me when it comes to using religious beliefs for discrimination this place has " form!!!!"
 
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Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
I think the difference here is that they are using the Bible as their reason for refusing to do this. There is nowhere in the Bible where it says that Blacks, disabled, Irish, animals in circuses is wrong, however it does say that being homosexual is wrong. Most of us modern day Christians have accepted that the world has moved on, but its the defence that can be used by those who usually also believe the world was made in 7 days, literally, and that evolution is a big fat lie. It also opens up the can of worms whereby people will say 'if you say the Bible is wrong on that can it not be wrong on other stuff?" but that's for another thread I think!

There is no justification for saying 'that black guy can't come in', but they can say there is justification for not letting homosexuals in because its in the Bible. It's wrong, but that is what they use for defence.
 
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
Just to clarify, I personally don't think it justifies anything, but some people will think it does.
 

Saoirse

Moderator
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
Yes but we cannot allow what some people believe from a book written 1000s of years ago- more of us don't believe a word of it- to be the basis for selective discrimination.
What's to stop me from saying the god I believe in tells me not to serve Blond haired people, to do so is against my beliefs.

With all due respect followers of all religions need to accept that what THEY believe is their business, nothing more- theres a lot more of us that don't believe a word of it - so why should we have to live our lives according to others blind faith.

I have no probs people believing in gods, fairies, Santa or whatever- but let us never run society based solely on what a minority chose to believe
 
Christian Bakery facing court threat over Gay Marriage Cake
To be honest if someone is a 'proper' Christian, by which I mean just trying to do their best and be a good person, they wouldn't ever want to hurt someone by saying 'you can't come in here' anyway. Having said that, I'm still not baking a cake for the circus!
 

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