scotssteve

Member
Celebrating an invasion
Its a historical re-enactment/celebration of something which happened five and a half centuries ago.
They appear to be making huge efforts to make it enjoyable, and promote a series of "Good" messages.

Taken in that context, why should any of the people of modern Turkey feel threatened?
 

scotssteve

Member
Celebrating an invasion
Me too, I love to learn about history and the Ottoman empire was not a major feature in British schools- at least not forty years ago.
 

teosgirl

Member
Celebrating an invasion
I don't think anyone in Turkey feels threatened, it didn't mention that in the report.

I find it strange that recently the Turkish government downgraded the 19th May celebrations (my husband was forbidden from laying a wreath on Ataturk memorial) because (according to them) the commemoration was too 'militarised', yet they're happy to celebrate an invasion/military campaign by the Ottoman empire.

Maybe in another 500 years we'll be celebrating the invasion of Iraq eh?

Charlotte
 

alison09400

Moderator
Celebrating an invasion
I think a country should celebrate it's history. Saying that, Turkey wasn't Turkey back then ...confusing lol!
 

supra

Member
Celebrating an invasion
Won't the Greeks celebrate the 'capture' of Salonica this November?
 

teosgirl

Member
Celebrating an invasion
I don't know Supra, if so then I'd say that's in bad taste too.
People seem to forget very quickly the effect these battles had on innocent civilians. I wonder how much time has to pass before celebrations of this type are deemed acceptable?

I can't understand why anyone would want to celebrate an event which lead to the deaths of innocent people who tried to protect their own country.
I wonder if Turkey celebrates with Israel during their day of Independence?


It seems very off to me.

Charlotte
 

tallulah

Member
Celebrating an invasion
Doesn't every country remember in some way it's past wars and conflicts? It's part of history, who knows what wars and military campaigns will be remembered by future generations. I used to find the displays of so called military superiority of the old USSR with their troops and weapons marching by for all to see...look at us..how great we are..disturbing.

Where I live they celebrate a battle fought hundreds of years ago, with a reenactment of the battle between Cromwalls parliamentarians and the Royalists. Most people look at it as a good day out watching men playing soldiers with loud cannon fire. I expect at the real event there would have been many innocent lives lost, usually the case in any war. But that gets lost in the bigger picture.
 

teosgirl

Member
Celebrating an invasion
I don't know, do the British re-enact invasions or the conquering of other nations and celebrate them with films and fireworks?

If so then I think it's wrong!

Celebrating winning a battle that you won DEFENDING your country is entirely different (in my view) to celebrating a victory over a defeated nation. Perhaps the Germans would have been celebrating now...I'm guessing some members would have been entirely supportive of it in that case?

There's also a difference between commemorating your dead soldiers, and celebrating an invasion. This is not a commemorative ceremony for dead Ottomans...it's gloating.

Charlotte
 

supra

Member
Celebrating an invasion
The Eastern Roman Empire wasnt a country.

Whats next? Condemning the Ottomans for breaching the Geneva Convention?

By the way, there are Greeks and Rum that celebrate the conquest of İstanbul and there were many who fought in the Ottoman army during the conquest.

Look at who is holding these celebrations - brainless İslamist youth organisations. Their concept of what the empire was is far removed from reality. The empire enriched non-Muslims and left the Muslims to their own devices in black ignorance.
 

teosgirl

Member
Celebrating an invasion
Very nearly D day. A worthy invasion to celebrate.

Hmm, would we be saying this if the Germans had won? (well, I guess we would, only in German :) )
Seriously, that seems a little different though - we were helping defend a nation, not attacking one.

I'm against war (or more specifically, invasions of other countries) therefore I find it bizarre to celebrate a war just because some time has elapsed.

Do we also celebrate the separation of Ireland?


Charlotte
 

Yalides

Am I pretty ?
Celebrating an invasion
The Normandy landings, codenamed Operation Neptune, were the landing operations of the Allied invasion of Normandy, in Operation Overlord, during World War II.
An invasion as I understand it.
 

geordie_nev

Member
Celebrating an invasion
And Fatih Sultan Mehmed liberated the Greeks in the eyes of some.

And probably not a bad thing the Ottoman Jewish populations whom went on to help create a vibrant, cosmopolitan city.

The first major event in Jewish history under Turkish rule took place after the Empire gained control over Constantinople. After Sultan Mehmed II's Conquest of Constantinople he found the city in a state of disarray. After suffering many sieges, a devastating conquest by Catholic Crusaders in 1204 and even a case of the Black Death in 1347,[10] the city was a shade of its former glory. As Mehmed wanted the city as his new capital, he decreed the rebuilding of the city.[11] And in order to revivify Constantinople he ordered that Muslims, Christians and Jews from all over his empire be resettled in the new capital.[11] Within months most of the Empire's Romaniote Jews, from the Balkans and Anatolia, were concentrated in Constantinople, where they made up 10% of the city's population.[12] But at the same time the forced resettlement, though not intended as an anti-Jewish measure, was perceived as an "expulsion" by the Jews.[13] Despite this interpretation however, the Romaniotes would be the most influential community in the Empire for several decades, until that position would be lost to a wave of new Jewish arrivals.

The greatest influx of Jews into Asia Minor and the Ottoman Empire, occurred during the reign of Mehmed the Conquerors's successor, Beyazid II (1481–1512), after the expulsion of the Jews from Spain and Portugal. The Sultan issued a formal invitation to Jews expelled from Spain and Portugal and they started arriving in the empire in great numbers. A key moment in Judeo-Turkic relations occurred in 1492, when more than 150,000 Spanish Jews fled the Spanish Inquisition, many to the Ottoman Empire. At that point in time, Constantinople's population was a mere 70,000 due to the various sieges of the city during the Crusades and the so-called Black Death of the 14th century, so this historical event was also significant for repopulation of the city. These Sephardic Jews settled in Constantinople as well as Salonika. The Sultan is said to have mocked the Spanish monarch's lack of wisdom: "Ye call Ferdinand a wise king he who makes his land poor and ours rich!".[16][17] The Spanish Jews were allowed to settle in the wealthier cities of the empire, especially in the European provinces (cities such as: Istanbul, Sarajevo, Salonica, Adrianople and Nicopolis), Western and NorthernAnatolia (Bursa, Aydın, Tokat and Amasya), but also in the Mediterranean coastal regions (for example:Jerusalem, Safed, Damascus, Egypt). Izmir was not settled by Spanish Jews until later. The Jewish population at Jerusalem increased from 70 families in 1488 to 1,500 at the beginning of the 16th century. That of Safed increased from 300 to 2,000 families and almost surpassed Jerusalem in importance. Damascus had a Sephardic congregation of 500 families. Istanbul had a Jewish community of 30,000 individuals with 44 synagogues. Bayezid allowed the Jews to live on the banks of the Golden Horn. Egypt, especially Cairo, received a large number of the exiles, who soon out-numbered the native Jews. Gradually, the chief center of the Sephardic Jews became Salonica, where the Spanish Jews soon outnumbered their co-religionists of other nationalities and, at one time, the original native inhabitants.

The Jews satisfied various needs in the Ottoman Empire: the Muslim Turks were largely uninterested in business enterprises and accordingly left commercial occupations to members of minority religions. They also distrusted the Christian subjects whose countries had only recently been conquered by the Ottomans and therefore it was natural to prefer Jewish subjects to which this consideration did not apply.
 

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