Tenpin

The Yorkshireman
Brexit going forward
Wait a few years the UK will be so deep in the poo we will become a cheap labor country :)

You mean like it was before with the cheap labour......foreign fruit and veg pickers, lorry drivers, NHS/Care Home Workers etc.....where the holes are starting to show now that UK businesses didn't invest in paying UK workers a decent wage?
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
Brexit going forward
You mean like it was before with the cheap labour......foreign fruit and veg pickers, lorry drivers, NHS/Care Home Workers etc.....where the holes are starting to show now that UK businesses didn't invest in paying UK workers a decent wage?
what do you call a decent wage ?
 

Tenpin

The Yorkshireman
Brexit going forward
what do you call a decent wage ?

Haven't we been over this before?

One people can live on.

The point, in case you missed it, was use of cheap (less than minimum wage, as has already been discussed) foreign labour.
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
Brexit going forward
Haven't we been over this before?

One people can live on.

The point, in case you missed it, was use of cheap (less than minimum wage, as has already been discussed) foreign labour.
No we haven't, plenty of talk of a decent wage but no numbers nor how it would work or who would pay for it. do you think the following is a decent wage ?


or how about the following ?

 

Tenpin

The Yorkshireman
Brexit going forward
No we haven't, plenty of talk of a decent wage but no numbers nor how it would work or who would pay for it. do you think the following is a decent wage ?


or how about the following ?


It would be up to the government to determine the minimum living wage, not me or you.

As for who would pay for it.....the employer requiring that skill would pay for it as in any job.

Question......what does "how it would work mean"......to you?
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
Brexit going forward
It would be up to the government to determine the minimum living wage, not me or you.

As for who would pay for it.....the employer requiring that skill would pay for it as in any job.

Question......what does "how it would work mean"......to you?
The government have dictated the minimum living wage, its you advocating paying more by saying it isnt enough and more should be paid.
An employer paying a higher wage has higher costs leading to higher prices, that's called inflation, inflation is where prices increase, this leads to a smaller market for the employer, a smaller market leads to the employer needing less employees.
This government has just increased the cost burden of most businesses, my example shows where they have cut police pay, same in the NHS so I can't see them rushing to increase the pay of fruit pickers.
RISHIS GAME.jpg
 

Tenpin

The Yorkshireman
Brexit going forward
The government have dictated the minimum living wage, its you advocating paying more by saying it isnt enough and more should be paid.
An employer paying a higher wage has higher costs leading to higher prices, that's called inflation, inflation is where prices increase, this leads to a smaller market for the employer, a smaller market leads to the employer needing less employees.
This government has just increased the cost burden of most businesses, my example shows where they have cut police pay, same in the NHS so I can't see them rushing to increase the pay of fruit pickers.

Can you highlight where I said 'it isn't enough ' or 'more should be paid'?

I actually said a decent wage.

But, you seem happier advocating paying foreign workers low wages instead of paying UK workers well so your prices won't go up.
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
Brexit going forward
Can you highlight where I said 'it isn't enough ' or 'more should be paid'?

I actually said a decent wage.

But, you seem happier advocating paying foreign workers low wages instead of paying UK workers well so your prices won't go up.
I never mentioned paying foreign or indigenous workers low wages, I showed you a comparison where a fruit picker would earn around £22000 and a police constable £21500 or thereabouts and asked you for a number which you failed to provide.
What I said was if prices go up then market shrinks and people will likely lose their jobs, is that what you are advocating, its cloud cuckoo land to expect employers to pay higher wages and their not be an inflationary effect.
Whilst the above wages are poor, they are reasonable in my opinion
 

Tenpin

The Yorkshireman
Brexit going forward
I never mentioned paying foreign or indigenous workers low wages, I showed you a comparison where a fruit picker would earn around £22000 and a police constable £21500 or thereabouts and asked you for a number which you failed to provide.
What I said was if prices go up then market shrinks and people will likely lose their jobs, is that what you are advocating, its cloud cuckoo land to expect employers to pay higher wages and their not be an inflationary effect.
Whilst the above wages are poor, they are reasonable in my opinion

How long is the fruit picking season in the UK?
As far as I can see it's 6 month.

And again you ask me for a number which I already said was not down to you or me but the government.
Those salaries you mention might be reasonable for Scotland, but not reasonable further south......that's one of the reasons for me saying it's for the government to decide country wide.
 

yalimart

The Carnwath Massive
Brexit going forward
How long is the fruit picking season in the UK?
As far as I can see it's 6 month.

And again you ask me for a number which I already said was not down to you or me but the government.
Those salaries you mention might be reasonable for Scotland, but not reasonable further south......that's one of the reasons for me saying it's for the government to decide country wide.
And the government have done just that, in both examples the fruit pickers and the police constable are paid more than that figure, but its still low regardless of location.
If you are correct about the duration of the fruit picking season then there is an argument for allowing temporary seasonal labour.
We are on the face of it on the same page re low pay, however a simple pay rise is inflationary and damaging for business, my view is the lower paid need to be removed from Tax and NI and those who avoid tax and NI should be pursued and brought in to the system as a balance, they could even call it levelling up .
 

Mushroom

Member
Brexit going forward
Police pay has been levelled down over the last decade. My mate ended his career on a basic of about £35,000 which was the top ceiling for his length of service under the old pay scales. That was 10 years ago.
Today, starting at just over £20,000 and with a different scale, they are worse off.
The fruit pickers are seasonal and with increased demand, they will get increased pay. Plod are now given a 3 year probation with no rises during that time.
If you want the fruit picker to do an extra hour, you pay him, plod won't get a bean.
When they are scrapping in lumps on a Friday night outside the pubs and clubs, send for the fruit pickers?
Nice to know that as starting pay goes, the fruit picker is just ahead but a poor comparison, but then nowadays, one of them needs to have a good level of basic education, no convictions (of note) and a good understanding of the English language, and then there's plod !
I don't think I could call that wage reasonable unless all living costs revert to what they were ten years ago.
 

Tenpin

The Yorkshireman
Brexit going forward
I'm struggling to see, if fruit pickers are on that salary, why people on Job Seekers Allowance are not jumping at the vacancies that apparently exist.

How much JSA you'll get.
If you're eligible for new style JSA, you can get a 'personal allowance' each week of up to: £59.20 if you're 18 to 24. £74.70 if you're 25 or over.

£59.20 per week is £3078 per year.
£74.70 per week is £3884 per year.

Both massively less than the £22000 fruit pickers apparently get.
And before it's said, I don't see how 'lazy uk workers' would stop someone wanting to be paid this amount.
 

Tenpin

The Yorkshireman
Brexit going forward

Firms back London to remain a global financial hub despite post-Brexit challenges, survey finds..​



Extract:
Finance firms believe that London will retain its status as a major financial centre post-Brexit, a new survey has found.
More than two-thirds of respondents in the Lloyds Bank annual sentiment survey said they thought London would not be toppled as a result of leaving the European Union.
The Times reports that almost twice as many firms also believe that the competitiveness of their sector will improve (32%) over the next 12 months, compared to those who think it will worsen (17%).

UK optimism​

Firms were much more confident about British economic growth and the prospects for the sector than in last year’s survey.
Nine in 10 respondents were bullish about UK economic prospects generally, as opposed to just a fifth last year.
Almost a third thought Britain’s economy would do the best of all G7 nations, compared with 7% in 2020.
Over half (51%) expected growth in the financial services sector to improve over the next 12 months, compared with 13% in 2020, and 65% expect British revenues to rise compared with 31% in 2020.
 

Camden

Member
Brexit going forward
I'm struggling to see, if fruit pickers are on that salary, why people on Job Seekers Allowance are not jumping at the vacancies that apparently exist.

How much JSA you'll get.
If you're eligible for new style JSA, you can get a 'personal allowance' each week of up to: £59.20 if you're 18 to 24. £74.70 if you're 25 or over.

£59.20 per week is £3078 per year.
£74.70 per week is £3884 per year.

Both massively less than the £22000 fruit pickers apparently get.
And before it's said, I don't see how 'lazy uk workers' would stop someone wanting to be paid this amount.

A JSA reciepnt filling the vacancy may be the easy part, but getting back on the system after your seasonal stint may be reason many don't as a pain with a 5 week wait for payment, causes numerous problems ...what is meant to happen with Universal Credit and what happens in practice certainly differ...
 

Mushroom

Member
Brexit going forward
When they are used to staying in bed all morning, claiming every benefit under the sun and having to do absolutely no work or get the problem of having to go through the whole claiming process again if they dared to take on a few weeks work, they will stay put.
They are available for some part time work where no benefits are affected, no tax or NI. It's called the black economy.
Can we still call it that?
 

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Brexit going forward
Wait a few years the UK will be so deep in the poo we will become a cheap labor country :)
And the EU isn’t a cheap labour entity & hasn’t it been a source for the UK to get it?
Cheap labour has been here for years & you know it.
 

SLEEPY

Member
Brexit going forward
Great Brexit achievement. So excited the next time I go over to England I’ll be able to order a good old PINT of warm English beer ! ….
(Just like I have for the past 56 years)
 

SLEEPY

Member
Brexit going forward
Brexit Britain:
"I'd like to buy a pound of apples, a pound of bananas and 8 ounces of grapes please."
"I'm terribly sorry, but we're completely out of fresh fruit."
 

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