SLEEPY

Member
Boris - Tories - What now?
See BJ has had another brain wave, he wants a roundabout under the Isle of man with 3 tunnels linking UK with Northern Ireland.
I assume to maintain tradition they will be called Tom,Dick and Harry .
I give up.
 

Mushroom

Member
Boris - Tories - What now?
Yes, but it's a great win for a union but nowt for the actual worker.
Theory and practical don't alignn.
My wife received her publishing recently from Unison, (She doesn't rate the Midwives union). It states that clapping is not enough and demands a 15% pay rise for everybody in the NHS. Not a chance !!
We aren't going to agree on this Mush .... but the History of gaining workers rights wasn't done without the threat or some suffering ...

I would rather see Workers rights laid into into law for 50 workers. eg entitlements, paid holidays , rest breaks, pension . minimum wages , sick relief and wrongful dismissal rights etc etc ........... than see a 70 with none at all ...
You can only have workers rights if those wanting the rights are actually 'workers'. If they have been made unemployed by their employers their rights are worthless and the days of the unions wielding the big stick have gone.Wife's union, Unison, which I believe is the biggest in the land have said in their most recent communication that clapping for NHS workers is fine but they want their members to get a 15% pay rise.
Total pie in the sky. Over 10 years maybe?
Another example of not being in the real world. In fairness my missus would love that before retiring but has a better chance of seeing my bare bum exposed in McDonald's window.
Time to accept that unions can bang the drum but not dictate the tune any more.
 

Mushroom

Member
Boris - Tories - What now?
Seeing as the points that Boris is going to outline to the nation tonight have already been leaked to the media, it looks to me that the road map is subject ,as expected, to certain criteria being met.
I don't think we can object to any of that but it leaves me with the feeling that these 'goal posts' are certainly not fixed and can be moved time and time again.
Am I the only one thinking that?
Then, just for good measure, the fact that the nation as a whole will be at it's safest regarding COVID only after each age group in the plan has received their second vaccination and a further 3 weeks has elapsed, that is still pointing towards Autumn.
There could be a lot of twists and turns in this road map before then.
 

IbrahimAbi

Grey wisdom
Boris - Tories - What now?
Seeing as the points that Boris is going to outline to the nation tonight have already been leaked to the media, it looks to me that the road map is subject ,as expected, to certain criteria being met.
I don't think we can object to any of that but it leaves me with the feeling that these 'goal posts' are certainly not fixed and can be moved time and time again.
Am I the only one thinking that?
Then, just for good measure, the fact that the nation as a whole will be at it's safest regarding COVID only after each age group in the plan has received their second vaccination and a further 3 weeks has elapsed, that is still pointing towards Autumn.
There could be a lot of twists and turns in this road map before then.
I am not sure about a road map, more like a farm track led by a donkey
 

Camden

Member
Boris - Tories - What now?
My wife received her publishing recently from Unison, (She doesn't rate the Midwives union). It states that clapping is not enough and demands a 15% pay rise for everybody in the NHS. Not a chance !!

You can only have workers rights if those wanting the rights are actually 'workers'. If they have been made unemployed by their employers their rights are worthless and the days of the unions wielding the big stick have gone.Wife's union, Unison, which I believe is the biggest in the land have said in their most recent communication that clapping for NHS workers is fine but they want their members to get a 15% pay rise.
Total pie in the sky. Over 10 years maybe?
Another example of not being in the real world. In fairness my missus would love that before retiring but has a better chance of seeing my bare bum exposed in McDonald's window.
Time to accept that unions can bang the drum but not dictate the tune any more.

I told you we wouldn't agree on all..

At the moment the Union case was brought by only a small number Uber drivers as a test case .... So the change whilst a momentous decision for the whole of the" GIG " economy will take a while to be implemented . But already we are seeing results Uber is now offering changes, that include giving Uber drivers more control over how they earn, and providing new protections like free insurance in case of sickness or injury. So the Workers and Union fight is already seeing benefits and worth the Union and members fight .....

The UK " gig " economy, has a workforce of approx 5.5 million people which this Supreme Court decision will affect, and now the Corporates will be trying hard to keep their "workers" happier, giving like them and Uber, their drivers, cyclists etc more protection and rights hoping they won't have to implement the whole package ....

Many of these GIG business have been very successful, not just Uber Taxi's but inc Uber EAT food delivery and many others etc whose take up as been vastly improved by the Pandemic, so don't see sitting on their profits and shedding staff when they have a profitable business model with extra revenue from data coming in just because of this Supreme court decision.
Say for example , I am wrong and you are right, and they do shed some staff... they certainly won't shed them all , it still will have been worthwhile as the ones kept on, and any new workers or companies setting up will now have to comply with workers protections and rights.

As for the NHS Unison whose members which inc nurses, paramedics, hospital porters and cleaners, is right to ask for 15%. Even if we were to put aside the gratitude, we should all feel for the tireless effort all these NHS staff have put in, during the Pandemic , putting their own and families life on the line .. having saved what would have been more deaths, if left to this Govt late policy and u turning ...

The Union was right to ask for 15% ( if it was left up to me personally it would be more) ... as with the Union fight with Uber and the corporates took 5 years ... this Govt whilst clapping for the NHS, when the public were looking on ...The Tories history in rewarding these heroic workers is poor and slow , Seen when the Tory MP's cheered in Parliament, after blocking nurses wages back in March last year .... So by the time its pushed through this 15% may be chickenfeed at best, So best to aim high in negotiations so a fair price can be derived in the end as these poor NHS staff are tired and running on empty ...and worth more...

My Sister who is a nurse has said what she heard that even the voice of the establishment the more moderate Royal College of Nursing is calling for a 12.5% pay rise for nursing staff across the UK, she thinks both the GMB / Unison is demanding the 15% you mentioned . Unison was asking last year for each employee to receive an increase of at least £2,000 by the end of 2020 under its campaign to give all NHS staff a decent pay rise which was refused by Hancock and the tories .
 
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Mushroom

Member
Boris - Tories - What now?
I told you we wouldn't agree on all..

At the moment the Union case was brought by only a small number Uber drivers as a test case .... So the change whilst a momentous decision for the whole of the" GIG " economy will take a while to be implemented . But already we are seeing results Uber is now offering changes, that include giving Uber drivers more control over how they earn, and providing new protections like free insurance in case of sickness or injury. So the Workers and Union fight is already seeing benefits and worth the Union and members fight .....

The UK " gig " economy, has a workforce of approx 5.5 million people which this Supreme Court decision will affect, and now the Corporates will be trying hard to keep their "workers" happier, giving like them and Uber, their drivers, cyclists etc more protection and rights hoping they won't have to implement the whole package ....

Many of these GIG business have been very successful, not just Uber Taxi's but inc Uber EAT food delivery and many others etc whose take up as been vastly improved by the Pandemic, so don't see sitting on their profits and shedding staff when they have a profitable business model with extra revenue from data coming in just because of this Supreme court decision.
Say for example , I am wrong and you are right, and they do shed some staff... they certainly won't shed them all , it still will have been worthwhile as the ones kept on, and any new workers or companies setting up will now have to comply with workers protections and rights.

As for the NHS Unison whose members which inc nurses, paramedics, hospital porters and cleaners, is right to ask for 15%. Even if we were to put aside the gratitude, we should all feel for the tireless effort all these NHS staff have put in, during the Pandemic , putting their own and families life on the line .. having saved what would have been more deaths, if left to this Govt late policy and u turning ...

The Union was right to ask for 15% ( if it was left up to me personally it would be more) ... as with the Union fight with Uber and the corporates took 5 years ... this Govt whilst clapping for the NHS, when the public were looking on ...The Tories history in rewarding these heroic workers is poor and slow , Seen when the Tory MP's cheered in Parliament, after blocking nurses wages back in March last year .... So by the time its pushed through this 15% may be chickenfeed at best, So best to aim high in negotiations so a fair price can be derived in the end as these poor NHS staff are tired and running on empty ...and worth more...

My Sister who is a nurse has said what she heard that even the voice of the establishment the more moderate Royal College of Nursing is calling for a 12.5% pay rise for nursing staff across the UK, she thinks both the GMB / Unison is demanding the 15% you mentioned . Unison was asking last year for each employee to receive an increase of at least £2,000 by the end of 2020 under its campaign to give all NHS staff a decent pay rise which was refused by Hancock and the tories .
I would naturally agree with everything you say with the NHS but Tories don't pay in anything other than instalments. Anything they offer is phased over years with many staff employed today, might not be there in a year or two and are not being replaced pro-rata. That's why we have had the empty Nightingale hospitals.
Plenty of sick people and no-one to treat them. People have turned away from Nursing as today they have to take out student loans as the burseries were axed by the idiots who didn't ever look to future staffing problems.
Turning to the Uber judgement. It sounds like a success in principle but I doubt it will be in practice and the expression ' be careful what you wish for' might apply.
I had 25 years of self employment incorporating 3 different businesses/consultancies. It gave me no guaranteed work, no sick or holiday pay or other rights, but it was lucrative, it gave me quality of life when my kids were growing up, generous tax and NI breaks.
If I'd been 'employed' I would have had the right to a contract, guaranteed hourly pay in return of contracted hourly work.
It would not have prevented possible redundancy or sacking (subject to the correct rules being followed). I would have been put on fixed work start and finish times with potentially no flexibility, with pre set days off and no choice in the matter as to be employed, you take the rough with the smooth and the employer is always the boss. For the perk of holiday pay and sick pay, I would have been given probably the minimum amount of leave, only statutory sick pay and minimum pay according to legislation. I would be on PAYE and higher NI contributions.
If that is seen as a successful outcome, I wouldn't want it.
Then there is the percentage game, except that it's not a game.
The employer will decide which people are worthy of employing and which aren't.
With associated costs of giving workers rights, some previously self employed workers will no longer be required, so a percentage will fall by the wayside.
Fine, if you make the cut 'I'm alright Jack',
Not so good if your services are no longer required.
The last union shop steward I met had been a hgv driver, who had taken on the management at Argos to argue about shift pay for one of 10 fellow drivers.
It brought in senior management and branch and area union members for a conflict.
The management announced that as of a certain date, the transport would be going to an outsourced haulage contractor and the currently employed drivers on good pay and perks would be served redundancy notices. They could apply to the third party for a job but it would be on the terms of the 'new' employer if they were successful in their application with less generous pay and no perks.
The union called their bluff.
Two months later 10 drivers were made redundant. 6 were re-employed by the other firm. The shop steward remained unemployed and working crap hours on crap pay for an agency.
 

Tenpin

The Yorkshireman
Boris - Tories - What now?

Keir Starmer has closed the gap – but Boris Johnson is still preferred as prime minister​


Full Story

Extract:
Many Labour supporters and some commentators say that Keir Starmer’s opinion poll ratings are disappointing. What they usually mean is that they dislike Boris Johnson and think that he has handled the coronavirus badly, and as a result believe that Labour ought to be miles ahead in the polls by now.

In fact, the polls suggest that enough people think the government has handled the crisis well to keep the Conservatives afloat, and an overwhelming majority think the government has done well on vaccines.
 
Boris - Tories - What now?
Seeing as the points that Boris is going to outline to the nation tonight have already been leaked to the media, it looks to me that the road map is subject ,as expected, to certain criteria being met.
I don't think we can object to any of that but it leaves me with the feeling that these 'goal posts' are certainly not fixed and can be moved time and time again.
Am I the only one thinking that?
Then, just for good measure, the fact that the nation as a whole will be at it's safest regarding COVID only after each age group in the plan has received their second vaccination and a further 3 weeks has elapsed, that is still pointing towards Autumn.
There could be a lot of twists and turns in this road map before then.

I expect future twists and turns myself. It’s the virus that’s dictating and will continue to do so for sometime yet. One new variant can throw a spanner in the works right across Europe and beyond.
 

Mushroom

Member
Boris - Tories - What now?
I watched C4 Dispatches tonight.
It was all about how the current £400 billion and rising will ever be recouped. One idea, rather than higher taxes, was to get the country working and construction is the great ideal.
Then, they moved to a construction expert who pointed out that Boris has been spouting about HS2, the £100 billion white elephant paid for by the tax payer and how it will bring in boatloads of jobs for years.
According to the expert, the work went out to tender and instead of the cronyism we have known of late, nearly all the winning tenders came from EU companies !! So, we pay for it even though we'd never use It, and the work and income will go to foreigners.
You could not make it up.
 

IbrahimAbi

Grey wisdom
Boris - Tories - What now?
I watched C4 Dispatches tonight.
It was all about how the current £400 billion and rising will ever be recouped. One idea, rather than higher taxes, was to get the country working and construction is the great ideal.
Then, they moved to a construction expert who pointed out that Boris has been spouting about HS2, the £100 billion white elephant paid for by the tax payer and how it will bring in boatloads of jobs for years.
According to the expert, the work went out to tender and instead of the cronyism we have known of late, nearly all the winning tenders came from EU companies !! So, we pay for it even though we'd never use It, and the work and income will go to foreigners.
You could not make it up.
I suspect that even Boris' pub landlord realised that HS2 is beyond him, he probably had first dibs though.
 

429nufc

Member
Boris - Tories - What now?
I've a large number of clients who have got no funds from the Government, they've been left to whistle. Presumably when the great pay back begins they'll not be expected to contribute!
 

Camden

Member
Boris - Tories - What now?

Save our NHS data

Why we’re suing over the £23m NHS data deal with Palantir

Under the new Palantir contract, we have no idea what is going into the long-term datastore

The government is battling ‘vaccine hesitancy’. How does sneaking through a massive deal with a controversial spy tech firm help?

Imagine you’re doing something unlawful – how do you avoid getting sued? Lately, if you’re Boris Johnson’s government, it seems you try sneaking it through before anyone notices.

Unfortunately for them, it didn’t work this time. We’ve just issued a lawsuit over their £23m NHS data deal with controversial ‘spy tech’ company Palantir.

We’re taking the government to court because, right before Christmas, they quietly gave this CIA-backed firm a major, long-term role in handling our personal health information, and in England’s cherished National Health Service.

The government claimed the initial Palantir ‘datastore’ deal, signed last March, was a short-term, emergency response to the pandemic. But December's new, two-year contract reaches far beyond COVID: to Brexit, general business planning and much more.

And, as the Bureau of Investigative Journalism reveals today, it comes after years of Palantir lobbying top UK and NHS officials, courting them in London, San Francisco and Davos

Palantir is best known for powering US intelligence operations in Iraq and Afghanistan. Its founder Peter Thiel, a Trump-backing Silicon Valley billionaire, famously once wrote: “I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible.” Palantir’s tech has been accused of creating ‘racist’ feedback loops in US ‘predictive policing’ software. Its own staff have criticised its role in Trump’s brutal deportations of undocumented migrants.
 

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