Tenpin

The Yorkshireman
Black Lives Matter
I wonder if any white people ever got shot and killed by the police, accidentally or otherwise in the US?
I wouldn’t want to be in a police force here or there. Heroes today, villains tomorrow.

This might give some indication.....

 

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Black Lives Matter

Camden

Member
Black Lives Matter
I wonder if any white people ever got shot and killed by the police, accidentally or otherwis

Rate of fatal police shootings by ethnicity U.S. 2015-2021​

Published by Statista Research Department, Mar 31, 2021
The rate of fatal police shootings in the United States shows large differences based on ethnicity.

Among Black Americans, the rate of fatal police shootings between 2015 and March 2021 stood at 35 per million of the population, while for White Americans, the rate stood at 14 fatal police shootings per million of the population.

Rate of fatal police shootings in the United States from 2015 to March 2021, by ethnicity (per million of the population)



Out of a population White: 60.1% Black: Black: 12.2%
 

Mushroom

Member
Black Lives Matter
Whilst I do not advocate that committing a crime should result in being fatally shot, the statistics show black people have had 2.5 times the fatalities of white people and that there are 5 times more white people in the US than black people.
What is absent is the ratio of black/white people committing offences and the types of offences committed by both.
In the UK there are always the figures quoted of black v white for stop and search in the Met, but the majority of teens and young adults being murdered by knife crime are black on black.
 

Camden

Member
Black Lives Matter
Whilst I do not advocate that committing a crime should result in being fatally shot, the statistics show black people have had 2.5 times the fatalities of white people and that there are 5 times more white people in the US than black people.
What is absent is the ratio of black/white people committing offences and the types of offences committed by both.
In the UK there are always the figures quoted of black v white for stop and search in the Met, but the majority of teens and young adults being murdered by knife crime are black on black.

I think you have got it right, in the first part of your statement, and that's why they have a Justice system for it to decide the outcome. Not the Police Service dispensing the justice, they are employed to serve and protect all the people . ..

As for the suggestion on the quote ... " being fatally shot, the statistics show black people have had 2.5 times the fatalities of white people and that there are 5 times more white people in the US than black people".

You think "offences" should be added to the mix ... If so ? then so should the reasons many people have for committing these offences .

Whilst not an excuse, but where there is economic deprivation, it is common for people to engage in criminal acts.... greedy for the elusive better life other people seem to have, promoted in the media and advertising .. in the "why not you culture "...

Nor is it helped by the lack of opportunity and Unemployment. .... With many of the accused not having positive role models to give them direction, not helped by many being lost in the Tory austerity cuts, when they closed down quite a few Youth Clubs. Leaving many with to much time on their hands, some escaping their life through drugs, some selling them to fund the elusive better life and and leaving them open to be influenced by Gangs or succumbing to Peer pressure to join.
 
Last edited:

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Black Lives Matter
I think you have got it right, in the first part of your statement, and that's why they have a Justice system for it to decide the outcome. Not the Police Service dispensing the justice, they are employed to serve and protect all the people . ..

As for the suggestion on the quote ... " being fatally shot, the statistics show black people have had 2.5 times the fatalities of white people and that there are 5 times more white people in the US than black people".

You think "offences" should be added to the mix ... If so ? then so should the reasons many people have for committing these offences .

Whilst not an excuse, but where there is economic deprivation, it is common for people to engage in criminal acts.... greedy for the elusive better life other people seem to have, promoted in the media and advertising .. in the "why not you culture "...

Nor is it helped by the lack of opportunity and Unemployment. .... Many of the accused don't have positive role models to give them direction, many lost in the Tory austerity cuts, when they closed down the Youth Clubs. Leaving to much time on their hands, with some escaping their life through drugs, or selling them to fund the elusive better life and leaving them open to be influenced by Gangs or succumbing to Peer pressure to join .

Positive roll models, would that include both parents having an input in the upbringing?
 

Mushroom

Member
Black Lives Matter
I think you have got it right, in the first part of your statement, and that's why they have a Justice system for it to decide the outcome. Not the Police Service dispensing the justice, they are employed to serve and protect all the people . ..

As for the suggestion on the quote ... " being fatally shot, the statistics show black people have had 2.5 times the fatalities of white people and that there are 5 times more white people in the US than black people".

You think "offences" should be added to the mix ... If so ? then so should the reasons many people have for committing these offences .

Whilst not an excuse, but where there is economic deprivation, it is common for people to engage in criminal acts.... greedy for the elusive better life other people seem to have, promoted in the media and advertising .. in the "why not you culture "...

Nor is it helped by the lack of opportunity and Unemployment. .... With many of the accused not having positive role models to give them direction, not helped by many being lost in the Tory austerity cuts, when they closed down quite a few Youth Clubs. Leaving many with to much time on their hands, some escaping their life through drugs, some selling them to fund the elusive better life and and leaving them open to be influenced by Gangs or succumbing to Peer pressure to join.
I'm with you on most of your comments but I think that whilst there are many reasons for offering mitigation for criminal acts I can't go any further to accept them as an excuse and in fairness I find it hard to accept what some would even call mitigation.
Everyone should strive for a better life but wheras our elders in society put up with wars, the great depression etc, we have the youth and young adults today claiming that they are deprived based on the choice of trainers they have to wear or not having an Xbox.
 

Camden

Member
Black Lives Matter
Positive roll models, would that include both parents having an input in the upbringing?

You are surely not going to use the Myth of the absent black father ? ... normally used provocatively to signal the reason for a crisis in Black families ? The reality is yes, there are some Black fathers absent, but they are not in the majority.
 

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Black Lives Matter
You are surely not going to use the Myth of the absent black father ? ... normally used provocatively to signal the reason for a crisis in Black families ? The reality is yes, there are some Black fathers absent, but they are not in the majority.

Just like the majority of the unemployed don’t turn to crime.
Austerity Camden has been rife across Europe for years, just like unemployment.
 

Camden

Member
Black Lives Matter
Just like the majority of the unemployed don’t turn to crime.
Austerity Camden has been rife across Europe for years, just like unemployment.

Again you go to your default Europe, as if in its comparison , it in some way salves the years of damaging Tory Austerity....... like the reduction in Police numbers and resources , the closing down of Youth Clubs , withdrawal of resources to the Judicial System, privatising the Probation Services meaning less control ( such a mess it had to be brought back Civil service Control etc etc ... I don't care what Europe did ,or did not do in relation to this ... it doesn't affect me/us ... Tory Austerity has ...

Please show the post I suggested the majority of unemployed turned to crime ? I was explaining to Mush that if we had to take into account the criminal offences he wanted ... Then we should need to also take into account the circumstance to why the offences are committed and it's a fact where there is economic deprivation, and unemployment it is common for some people to engage in criminal acts.
 
Last edited:

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Black Lives Matter
Again you go to your default Europe, as if in its comparison , it in some way salves the years of damaging Tory Austerity....... like the reduction in Police numbers and resources , the closing down of Youth Clubs , withdrawal of resources to the Judicial System, privatising the Probation Services meaning less control ( such a mess it had to be brought back Civil service Control etc etc ... I don't care what Europe did ,or did not do in relation to this ... it doesn't affect me/us ... Tory Austerity has ...

Please show the post I suggested the majority of unemployed turned to crime ? I was explaining to Mush that if we had to take into account the criminal offences he wanted ... Then we should need to also take into account the circumstance to why the offences are committed and it's a fact where there is economic deprivation, and unemployment it is common for some people to engage in criminal acts.

Nothing default about it, it’s a fact. There’s food banks right across Europe including France, Germany, Italy etc, which also shows mass unemployment. Is that down to a Tory Government or the worlds economy.

 

Jaycey

African Refugee
Black Lives Matter
86428117_179711246634485_5051650669954465792_n.jpg

In 1866, one year after the 13 Amendment was ratified (the amendment that ended slavery), Alabama, Texas, Louisiana, Arkansas, Georgia, Mississippi, Florida, Tennessee, and South Carolina began to lease out convicts for labor (peonage). This made the business of arresting Blacks very lucrative, which is why hundreds of White men were hired by these states as police officers. Their primary responsibility was to search out and arrest Blacks who were in violation of Black Codes. Once arrested, these men, women and children would be leased to plantations where they would harvest cotton, tobacco, sugar cane. Or they would be leased to work at coal mines, or railroad companies. The owners of these businesses would pay the state for every prisoner who worked for them; prison labor.
It is believed that after the passing of the 13th Amendment, more than 800,000 Blacks were part of the system of peonage, or re-enslavement through the prison system. Peonage didn’t end until after World War II began, around 1940.
This is how it happened.
The 13th Amendment declared that "Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction." (Ratified in 1865)
Did you catch that? It says, “neither slavery nor involuntary servitude could occur except as a punishment for a crime". Lawmakers used this phrase to make petty offenses crimes. When Blacks were found guilty of committing these crimes, they were imprisoned and then leased out to the same businesses that lost slaves after the passing of the 13th Amendment. This system of convict labor is called peonage.
The majority of White Southern farmers and business owners hated the 13th Amendment because it took away slave labor. As a way to appease them, the federal government turned a blind eye when southern states used this clause in the 13th Amendment to establish laws called Black Codes. Here are some examples of Black Codes:
In Louisiana, it was illegal for a Black man to preach to Black congregations without special permission in writing from the president of the police. If caught, he could be arrested and fined. If he could not pay the fines, which were unbelievably high, he would be forced to work for an individual, or go to jail or prison where he would work until his debt was paid off.
If a Black person did not have a job, he or she could be arrested and imprisoned on the charge of vagrancy or loitering.
This next Black Code will make you cringe. In South Carolina, if the parent of a Black child was considered vagrant, the judicial system allowed the police and/or other government agencies to “apprentice” the child to an "employer". Males could be held until the age of 21, and females could be held until they were 18. Their owner had the legal right to inflict punishment on the child for disobedience, and to recapture them if they ran away.
This (peonage) is an example of systemic racism - Racism established and perpetuated by government systems. Slavery was made legal by the U.S. Government. Segregation, Black Codes, Jim Crow and peonage were all made legal by the government, and upheld by the judicial system. These acts of racism were built into the system, which is where the term “Systemic Racism” is derived.
This is the part of "Black History" that most of us were never told about.
 

Mushroom

Member
Black Lives Matter
I think that whilst we are looking at the causes and excuses for crime, which I don't accept is all down to austerity, unemployment and the rest. Just add to it, the lack of deterrent to those who are about to or are committing crime.
It started to go down the pan in the early 80's when the mantra of 'prevention and detection of crime' went absent and instead we had PACE introduced.
It sent out a message, along with the mission statements that actually the criminals had rights and with it, the victims of crime had diminished rights.
It gave us the situation that the bloke arrested for mugging old ladies had the right to 8 hours kip on the night and a satisfactory breakfast before he could be interviewed. Then, the judicial system gave us the career criminal who gets a conditional discharge for his umpteenth offence.
Today we have feral youths committing crimes because basically it pays, there is no deterrent and in the case of drugs, where else can you have a good earner doing very little, with little chance of getting caught and even so, very little punishment if you are caught?
That's where violent crime is rife amongst rivals.
 

Mushroom

Member
Black Lives Matter
Meanwhile, the BBC Diversity Chief (Black female) has expressed her dismay that Idris Elba's character Luther is not 'black enough to be real' as he doesn't have any black friends and doesn't eat Caribbean food.
I would have thought that if this fictional character had only got black friends and ate Jerk chicken 3 times a day, there would have been outrage that he was being portrayed as stereotypical.
She reckons he (fictional character) should have an environment and culture built around them that is representative of their background.
On that basis, to be representative of my background I am now going to get a council house, a whippet, live on a diet of dripping and bread and get myself a job at a the local pit. (oh, there aren't any)
 

immac

Senior Member Has-Been
Black Lives Matter
I read this week that the founder of BLM, who espouses an anti-capitalist agenda, has recently moved into a $1.3 million mansion on The West Coast; this is extra to the property portfolio of 3 other houses she has her fortune invested in. She sees no problem or contradiction with the BLM mantra in her lifestyle.

Ian
 

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Black Lives Matter
You’ve got to put it in to take it out in this life & that applies to all colours.
Try standing in court with the mitigation of, “ I only snatched the old dears handbag because I hadn’t got a job”.
 

Mushroom

Member
Black Lives Matter
I was thinking about this woman at the BBC who wanted a fictional black bloke to live somewhere and eat things that represent black people as well as being disappointed that he only apparently had white friends.
I live in what was once a village but has expanded over the last 30 years to being 4 times more populated than before.
We have a few Asian families and a couple of Anglo/Chinese families, at least 2 gay blokes who are our neighbours but until this week, no known black family.
However, on Monday as the schools went back that changed.
I was passing our nearest school at kicking out time and there he was- a black man picking up his two kids from school.
On Tuesday, the same bloke was coming out of our one and only local chippy.
I can only wonder what the BBC head of diversity would make of It?
To think, a black family who live in a place which is 99.9% white populated, living with white neighbours who will hopefully become friends, his kids making friends with white school mates and just for good measure- this family like fish and chips !!
My new village resident would be such a disappointment to this blinkered woman and that's why the BBC doesn't get my money.
 

35pluschips

Member
Top Poster Of Month
Black Lives Matter
I was thinking about this woman at the BBC who wanted a fictional black bloke to live somewhere and eat things that represent black people as well as being disappointed that he only apparently had white friends.
I live in what was once a village but has expanded over the last 30 years to being 4 times more populated than before.
We have a few Asian families and a couple of Anglo/Chinese families, at least 2 gay blokes who are our neighbours but until this week, no known black family.
However, on Monday as the schools went back that changed.
I was passing our nearest school at kicking out time and there he was- a black man picking up his two kids from school.
On Tuesday, the same bloke was coming out of our one and only local chippy.
I can only wonder what the BBC head of diversity would make of It?
To think, a black family who live in a place which is 99.9% white populated, living with white neighbours who will hopefully become friends, his kids making friends with white school mates and just for good measure- this family like fish and chips !!
My new village resident would be such a disappointment to this blinkered woman and that's why the BBC doesn't get my money.

Most people just want to get on with their lives. I’m sure most of us can dish out a few of our own hard luck stories......I know I can.
 

mollag

Kipper restorer
Black Lives Matter
I read this week that the founder of BLM, who espouses an anti-capitalist agenda, has recently moved into a $1.3 million mansion on The West Coast; this is extra to the property portfolio of 3 other houses she has her fortune invested in. She sees no problem or contradiction with the BLM mantra in her lifestyle.

Ian
Ar you not mixing up BLM with Communism ?, they really not the same thing, anyhoo any more info on this Lady and her luck, a name maybe, an article, some sort of back up to the criticism? It sounds very Daily Mail.
 

Latest Posts

Top Bottom