immac

Senior Member Has-Been
Black Lives Matter
I have been following this idea for a few weeks. They have a Web site, which is quite clear, but on closer looking is a little vague in its aspirations (link below); the USA and UK sites are largely the same.

There are a few things which make me wonder where this will go. For example, there is no mention of multiculturalism, but a lot of talk about setting up "village" groups which care for each other. They reject the concept of "family" as a Western construct. No talk about integration.

They want to defund the police and close prisons, but do not say what goes in their place.

https://blacklivesmatter.com

Evidence seems to be that to question the aims of BLM, can in itself be branded "racist", and people are already losing their jobs and prospects of employment for doing just that.

I wonder where this is going

Ian
 

Mushroom

Member
Black Lives Matter
It's the loony left jumping on the bandwagon and it will eventually dilute before eventually losing it's momentum (momentum probably being the activists).
Before then, we have activists who want to disband the Police, Capitalism and all the usual garbage but this time attaching to BLM.
We are already a melting pot in the UK of various cultures, religions and backgrounds and for the main part, we seem to get along nicely.
It's not perfect, but it's not the US by any means.
What worries me is not so much the activists, who are small in number as a percentage of the entire population, but the apologists and politically correct leaders in our society who are too blinkered in their own ideals and are basically frightened to say anything for fear of being accused of being racist, homophobic etc etc, so for their own continued success in high position with salaries to match they are willingly dragged into the situation.
We are left with Police chiefs who are ineffective, law and order suspended, politicians who dare not say anything which might offend and now 'tokenism' which to me is unacceptable as well.
My daughter was about to apply for an investigative journalism post with the BBC some months ago, before BLM, and after reading the online requirements went no further. She fell at the first hurdle because it openly stated on the application that they were recruiting more diverse applicants and then went on to ask in the first two questions - What is your colour? & Are you straight, gay, trans-whatever? It was several questions later before it even asked about qualifications or experience, which did not seem to require much of anything.
We are now told that to include more Police officers from Diverse backgrounds, the applications will be diluted in entry requirements - which is dumbing down in other words.
I find this concept as insulting as bias in the opposite direction as it must be applying a stigma for someone to get a job in the knowledge that they only got it on meeting the diversity requirements and not as the best candidate for the job, ie on merit.
That is the situation we are allowing to happen and that is why there is no way I will applaud or copy anyone in "taking the knee".
 

Akasya

Postless Pointer
Black Lives Matter
It's the loony left jumping on the bandwagon and it will eventually dilute before eventually losing it's momentum (momentum probably being the activists).
Before then, we have activists who want to disband the Police, Capitalism and all the usual garbage but this time attaching to BLM.
We are already a melting pot in the UK of various cultures, religions and backgrounds and for the main part, we seem to get along nicely.
It's not perfect, but it's not the US by any means.
What worries me is not so much the activists, who are small in number as a percentage of the entire population, but the apologists and politically correct leaders in our society who are too blinkered in their own ideals and are basically frightened to say anything for fear of being accused of being racist, homophobic etc etc, so for their own continued success in high position with salaries to match they are willingly dragged into the situation.
We are left with Police chiefs who are ineffective, law and order suspended, politicians who dare not say anything which might offend and now 'tokenism' which to me is unacceptable as well.
My daughter was about to apply for an investigative journalism post with the BBC some months ago, before BLM, and after reading the online requirements went no further. She fell at the first hurdle because it openly stated on the application that they were recruiting more diverse applicants and then went on to ask in the first two questions - What is your colour? & Are you straight, gay, trans-whatever? It was several questions later before it even asked about qualifications or experience, which did not seem to require much of anything.
We are now told that to include more Police officers from Diverse backgrounds, the applications will be diluted in entry requirements - which is dumbing down in other words.
I find this concept as insulting as bias in the opposite direction as it must be applying a stigma for someone to get a job in the knowledge that they only got it on meeting the diversity requirements and not as the best candidate for the job, ie on merit.
That is the situation we are allowing to happen and that is why there is no way I will applaud or copy anyone in "taking the knee".

But nothing regarding the rabid rabble rousing right and their sickening racist posturing and violence ?

Steve
 

Mushroom

Member
Black Lives Matter
As I've said before Steve, the rabble rousing right stay mainly dormant until they have a cause to oppose. BLM gave them the oxygen and they turned up as anticipated. However, they do not make outrageous demands about who should be in what job and they haven't insisted on everybody and their granny making one armed Nazi salutes to compete with 'taking the knee'.
I think they are seen mainly as a bunch of misfits who have a demo from time to time as a protest, then go back to their 'normal' lives.
In short, they are not trying to overwhelm the UK with their doctrination, which cannot be said the same of BLM, Extinction Rebellion and the left leaning nutters.
 

Akasya

Postless Pointer
Black Lives Matter
As I've said before Steve, the rabble rousing right stay mainly dormant until they have a cause to oppose. BLM gave them the oxygen and they turned up as anticipated. However, they do not make outrageous demands about who should be in what job and they haven't insisted on everybody and their granny making one armed Nazi salutes to compete with 'taking the knee'.
I think they are seen mainly as a bunch of misfits who have a demo from time to time as a protest, then go back to their 'normal' lives.
In short, they are not trying to overwhelm the UK with their doctrination, which cannot be said the same of BLM, Extinction Rebellion and the left leaning nutters.

Really , you surprise me .

Steve
 

Mushroom

Member
Black Lives Matter
The rabble rousing right have been sussed by the law abiding citizens as being a small group of extremists who cannot and will not gain any ground in our democratic system.
They can make no demands as they have no support.
This is borne out at any local or National elections whether they attach themselves to NF, BNP, EDF or whatever. They usually lose their deposit.
They are the ones who get 'kettled' when they protest in London by Plod with full riot gear.

The loony left however have the easy ride. They attach themselves to BLM or Extinction rebellion where the PC brigade knows what they are about but dare not rock the boat and in certain sections actually support them.
This is where you see dancing plod or on a skateboard or inept plod doing nothing as statues are damaged. Even worse, the supposed non-political plod being ordered to take a knee, which is supporting a cause which has been taken over by anarchists.
There is an imbalance in the UK but unfortunately despite all the rhetoric, it isn't caused by white nutters in small numbers on the right.
A black criminal was murdered 4000 miles away in a country very much having racial divides and it led to mass protests over here and the forming of a left wing protest group with numerous demands.
Last weekend a black bloke murdered 3 white men in Reading and it only just made the news. There were no mass demonstrations, acts of violence or criminal damage.
That is because no-one was trying to hijack the situation and we are tolerant, sometimes to the extreme given those circumstances.
Now turn the hypothetical tables. Three black men are murdered in Reading by a white bloke. The riots would still be going on.
The danger to our democracy and society is from the left, not the right, but they are all nutters.
 

Chasey

Member
Black Lives Matter
BLM is a far left wing organisation which is extremely well funded

by extremely well I mean to the tune of several hundred million pounds last year

Some of their views are extreme such as defunding the police and disbanding the concept of a family as we understand it. and replacing it with a commune based system

I am 100% supportive of their existence in a society of free speech and freedom of beliefs but I am 100% against the use of their wealth and power to suppress free speech in others and their willingness to support criminal and violent behaviour by their "followers"

VERY few BLM supporters understand what this political group really stand for

Stage one of waking the f##k up is understanding BLM is a powerful far left political movement who as a tiny percentage of their overall goal, focus on issues related directly to the oppression of black people by the state. They have no interest in black people being killed in other environments and they are not just a hash tag

If you want a counter argument to BLM just post this link

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/inv...veals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/


So what would the response be to a far right group called "white lives matter" protesting & rioting as a result of the above incident?
 
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Camden

Member
Black Lives Matter
Mushroom .. The UK police doesn't use what is called "positive discrimination" or even "dumbing down" as you suggest to boost non-white numbers. Maybe that's why the police force don't reflect the makeup of its local populations they serve.. to get policing by consent we require a representative police force.

If we did, then maybe we wouldn't have on a regular basis the below... Or a need for BLM ...

This happens regularly so much so it hardly makes the news.

Yesterday ,a father and his 13-year-old son on a charity bike ride were nearly tasered by the police, because they fitted the description of two suspects
being Black....

It must have been humiliating for the father lying handcuffed on the ground in front of his young son. Not to mention a father's helplessness in not being able to help or protect his 13 year old son from nearly being tasered. When both were innocent.

Or the Black Bank manager wrongly arrested, with the investigating officers unconsciously thinking in part guilt, due to a lifestyle not expected of a young Black man.... Only saved after the stacking of his alleged crimes, was being able to afford a good lawyer and his Banking abilities of keeping good records to explain "his life style." ..but he shouldn't have needed too.



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E8sgtx2GPmQ"]YouTube[/ame]



[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1x0G4NCBTzg"]YouTube[/ame]


Black dad and son, 13, tackled and handcuffed by police on charity bike ride
Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/06/29/blac...olice-charity-bike-ride-12917312/?ito=cbshare
 
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immac

Senior Member Has-Been
Black Lives Matter
Football world, trying to be PC, are scrabbling around for a black player from history so they can shove a statue up; no doubt with this weekend's F1 we will see everyone on their knees to keep Lewis happy - Mercedes have already painted their cars black, for God's sake!

Lots of Virtue Signalling going on.

Only question is when will the backlash come, and in what form?

Ian
 
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MiddleEarth

MiddleEarth
Black Lives Matter
As I've said before Steve, the rabble rousing right stay mainly dormant until they have a cause to oppose. BLM gave them the oxygen and they turned up as anticipated. However, they do not make outrageous demands about who should be in what job and they haven't insisted on everybody and their granny making one armed Nazi salutes to compete with 'taking the knee'.
I think they are seen mainly as a bunch of misfits who have a demo from time to time as a protest, then go back to their 'normal' lives.
In short, they are not trying to overwhelm the UK with their doctrination, which cannot be said the same of BLM, Extinction Rebellion and the left leaning nutters.

I would like to see the data backing up the comments you made in bold above please.

I find it difficult to believe that you have looked very deep into the ascendency of the extreme right around the world. The USA is experiencing a wave of right extremist terrorism, other countries are not exempt.

The Rise of Far-Right Extremism in the United States (scholarly study)
https://www.csis.org/analysis/rise-far-right-extremism-united-states

This author of the Anti-fascist Handbook (below) would disagree with your comments, please read his book, tell me then how the extreme right are so benign.
Watch the video in this book review about halfway down the page:
Antifa: the Anti-fascist Handbook – 'What Trump said made the book seem even more urgent'
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2...k-trump-us-politics-far-right-charlottesville
"One of the most fundamental principles of antifa is “no platform for fascism”, Bray argues, and is a rejection of “the liberal notion that fascism is a school of thought worthy of open debate and consideration.” Their activities include educational campaigns, working with communities, monitoring fascist individuals and being prepared to “physically confront the far right when necessary. Though this last facet of anti-fascism gets the most attention, it is actually only a small fraction of the thankless drudgery that is committing oneself to tracking the scum of the earth,”

If anyone believes any current fascist is worthy of debate
then roll the clock back and jump into 1943 and
have a debate and disagree with Eichmann, Goebbels,
Mussollini, or the other nazis of that time.​

Black vs White Power Post:
http://www.turkishliving.com/forums/news-views/88891-trump-46.html#post1241915

Alt-right (extreme right wing) post:
http://www.turkishliving.com/forums/news-views/88891-trump-46.html#post1241917
I repeat, there are NO "very fine" nazis. None.
(Nazis are just part of the extreme right in the USA)
See the second video in this post for just ONE of the many examples of the extreme right and their escalating violence in the USA.
 

MiddleEarth

MiddleEarth
Black Lives Matter
BLM is a far left wing organisation which is extremely well funded

by extremely well I mean to the tune of several hundred million pounds last year


Some of their views are extreme such as defunding the police and disbanding the concept of a family as we understand it. and replacing it with a commune based system

I am 100% supportive of their existence in a society of free speech and freedom of beliefs but I am 100% against the use of their wealth and power to suppress free speech in others and their willingness to support criminal and violent behaviour by their "followers"

VERY few BLM supporters understand what this political group really stand for

Stage one of waking the f##k up is understanding BLM is a powerful far left political movement who as a tiny percentage of their overall goal, focus on issues related directly to the oppression of black people by the state. They have no interest in black people being killed in other environments and not just a hash tag

If you want a counter argument to BLM just post this link

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/inv...veals-the-final-minutes-of-tony-timpa-s-life/

So what would the response be to a far right group called "white lives matter" protesting & rioting as a result of the above incident?

This is the response by a far right group...
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZN7vm9mIPBs"]YouTube[/ame]
Please post your references to the funding of BLM and your opinion of why you believe that is an argument against BLM.

I watched the DallasNews video and I do not understand how anyone can take the point of view that it is a counter argument to BLM. Please enlighten me.

If you carefully read the data on the two sites below, they show disproportionate violence by police toward black males. They also address the issue of mental illness deaths by police, what, I believe you might mean by the DallasNews video? (Although I am not sure)

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2017-2020
https://www.statista.com/statistics/585152/people-shot-to-death-by-us-police-by-race/
the rate of fatal police shootings among Black Americans was much higher than that for any other ethnicity, standing at 30 fatal shootings per million of the population as of June 2020.

Deaths Due to Use of Lethal Force by Law Enforcement
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6080222/
Results:
Victims were majority white (52%) but disproportionately black (32%) with a fatality rate 2.8 times higher among blacks than whites...Recent analyses17 suggest that legal intervention deaths increased 45% (from 0.11 to 0.16/100,000) between 1999 and 2013, with higher rates among blacks (0.24)...
 

MiddleEarth

MiddleEarth
Black Lives Matter
Sound advice?
YouTube

Actually it is sound advice, unfortunately what Chris Rock did was
make a dark and ironic comedy, not funny and in poor taste...
about the below...

Stop the Violence Safety Video for when you get pulled over by the Police.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnoLAtu0Wjk"]YouTube[/ame]

An example of "walking while black" (a crime in some neighborhoods),
UH, while carrying a rifle in the open with a LEGAL permit to carry.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jf5TEoo-EY0"]White Vs. Black Open Carry Social Experiment Expose Racism With Police - YouTube[/ame]​

Trump did not start the violence of the extreme (alt) right in the USA but his election accelerated the instances of it and emboldened its advocates such as Rush Limbaugh, FAUX (not) news and its sewage spitting characters such as Hannity, Breitbart and Bannon, et. al.

Extreme right media sources:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_media_(U.S._political_right)#Conservative_media_outlets
 

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